bobpike Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Can someone, please relate the position of 'The Mound,' St Eloi to a modern mao, please? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrette Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Can someone, please relate the position of 'The Mound,' St Eloi to a modern mao, please? Bob Somehow I think you don't mean Mont St Eloi, Bob? Lat: 50:21:02N (50.35046) Lon: 2:41:26E (2.69059) MultiMap Norrette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Norrette, I think that Bob means St. Eloi (Elooi) at the T junction (now roundabout) 4 km south of Ypres and 2.5 km north of Wijtschate. Where the craters are, and where the road south goes to Wijtschate and Messines and Ploegsteert, and the road southeast to Warneton. There certainly was a mound. Sorry, Bob, I can't help you. I don't know what an "mao" is, but it looks and sounds like something that even if I knew what it is ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Sorry, Bob, I can't help you. I don't know what an "mao" is, but it looks and sounds like something that even if I knew what it is ... Map, I believe – obvious, really, as Mao is often referred to as The Great Navigator ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobpike Posted 20 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2008 I am, of course, delighted my inadequate typing skills provoke a risible riposte or two, but I did mean 'map' and I did mean 'The Mound' St Eloi where Noel Mellish won his VC in 1916. I would still like to know if it can be located today, please, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrette Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Well there is a crossroads here (and which may have been a T-Junction earlier) :- Lat: 50:48:38N (50.81047) Lon: 2:53:13E (2.88692) Multimap It's where the N336 joins with Sint-Elooisweg South of Ypres. In google there is a slight raise in the area (but now seems populated) Norrette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Bob - trench map below. The approx GPS location is: 50°48.544'N, 2°53.724'E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Visitors to The Long, Long Trail would have found this map and article at http://www.1914-1918.net/bat14_3.htm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Paul The trench map seems slightly at odds with the map in Peter Barton's book 'Battlefields of the First World War' which has The Mound further west, at the site of the largest crater(no longer in exiostence) I think it is probably due to the writing of the narrative on the map. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Francis Hitchcock in his 'Stand To!' shows it in the location which I have indicated - i.e. where the words 'The Mound' are. As he served there for some months in 1915, I hope he knew where he was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Well, as I had already scanned this before I saw the previous recent postings ... But I'm afraid it won't be much help. (I don't even find the two craters ! ;-( And a rather unfavourable scale (1 : 50 000) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Try a different scale ... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Paul Sorry I still have to disagree Nicholson (Chapter 5) refers to Mine no 3 having obliterated the Mound and reduced it to a gaping hole. I can't find them at the moment but there are other references to Mine no 3 being the largest explosion and directly under the Mound. This map was printed 3rd March 1916 ie before the mines were blown and shows. in the position I believe the Mound to be, hathing to show a raised feature. This map is from March 1916 war diary of 1st North'd Fus Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Interesting, I am away from my scanner so can't post Hitchcock's sketches, which he did at the time in his diary. They certainly show the mound to the 'left' of the village, viewing it as he did from the north. If it had been south of that main fork in the road not sure if it would show it in such a position? Worthy of further exploration - are there any panoramas in Peter's book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobpike Posted 21 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Thank you all for your responses; I am eager to find the definitive answer as I've been asked to take some contemporary photos in St Eloi with reference to a new book on Noel Mellish and the unveiling of a plaque in Great Dunmow, Essex. I have posted details elsewhere on the Forum, but it seems appropriate to do so here, too FOR VALOUR The story of Reverend Noel Mellish, VC, MC Vicar of Great Dunmow 1928 - 1948 Reverend Noel Mellish was a war hero. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for acts of conspicuous bravery over three days at Ypres in 1916, the first member of the Chaplains' Department to be so honoured in the Great War 1914-1918. Reverend Mellish was Vicar of St Mary's Parish Church, Great Dunmow from 1928 until his retirement in 1948. He will have been well known to many in this community. In his memory, Great Dunmow Town Council has commissioned a handsome bronze plaque, to be placed on display near the war memorial and unveiled on June 19th at 3 p.m. The Great Dunmow Historical Society has produced a booklet "For Valour", to complement the occasion and provide for local people some account of the life of this remarkable, self-effacing man. The A5 size booklet has 48 pages, including illustrations. It costs £3.50 (to include p&p) or £2.75 to personal callers. Cheques to be made payable to Great Dunmow Historical Society It can be obtained from:- Ken Drury, The Old Post House The Street High Roding Essex, CM6 1 NR NB Bulk orders for 6 or more copies are £1.80 a copy (plus p&p) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 I seem to remember reading somewhere that where the Mound used to be can be viewed but is on private property and you need to approach the landowner. I also seem to recall that the Mound 'disappeared', as it were, probably in 1917 (?) due to mines and the further fighting in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 I think there has been a fair bit of discussion, on this forum and elsewhere, about the position of the "Mound". I'm not sure if anything other than a small pile existed, probably where mine no 3 was. I think there is a house there today. Bearing in mind the size of the craters, the pile could not have been that big. Big enough to be significant at the time , yes, but smaller diameter than existing craters. Today, one can see that the general area around the existing craters nos 4 and 5 is slightly higher than surrounding and the terrain does fall away on all sides. Whereas the words "The Mound" are printed on maps where Paul says, ie where mine no5 is (still), on maps before and after March 1916 and June 1917, it is normally printed in brown, not red or blue....denoting a place, not a feature. Even as late as summer 1918, when the Australians held the sector, it still appears marked on maps as a place, long after any mining activity. Bob, there are some interesting shots you can take around The Mound area, much activity/history there, but The Mound itself....no. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Here is (poor copy) of Australian map, summer 1918, still shows The Mound as a place rather than a feature. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 are there any panoramas in Peter's book? Yes the Mound features on 2 panoramas in Peter's book though very difficult to pick out as I believe it was only 20/30ft high. It is on the extreme right of panorama 42 and extreme left of 52. These two edges intersect approximately where Peter has the site of the Mound. see green lines There is also a very rare picture of the Mound in Peter's book but don't believe I should post it for copyright reasons. Nigel, I think the Mound disapperared in March 1916 and the area was completly 'cjhanged' again on June 1917 with the blowing of another mine, one of the msny of Messines Ridge. The area of the 1917 is the green circle on my earlier posting. This is on private land and requires landowners permission to view. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Another map of showing the Mound in between the Messines and Warnaton roads. Taken from the regimental History of the 1st Northumberland Fusilliers. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 Peter,as I have always been a bit sceptical about anything of any height at The Mound (20/30 feet would have dominated the landscape for miles, and I don't think there had been any civil engineering or industrial work close by to provide spoil) I would love to see a picture just to prove myself wrong. I don't have Peter's book, and I believe Peter is happy to help with dissemination of information (the original photographer also will presumably not mind, nor his boss). I came across some time ago some intelligence sketches showing views from Voormezeele (some appear in the Battleground series), and I found that the Mound was conspicuous by it's absence. Is it possible you could send a copy, off-forum if you think it correct, please?. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 22 April , 2008 Share Posted 22 April , 2008 I don't think there had been any civil engineering or industrial work close by to provide spoil) I believe it was spoil from a brickworks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 24 April , 2008 Share Posted 24 April , 2008 Peter, many thanks for the photo....I agree it certainly looks like a significant height, judging by the adjacent building. I will try and determine what was there prior, as I didn't think there was a brickworks there. It is evident why it became a contested point. I still have queries why "The Mound" seems to relate to the general area of the 45 contour, and why it appears as a place name, (generally on the left side coming from Ypres, not the right) not a feature name. Oh for the chance to find out. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 7 November , 2022 Share Posted 7 November , 2022 Is anyone still following this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 I have recently been reading about the counter attack by 27 Div on the night of 14 to 15/02/1915. It was directed against Trench 19. There is a report by Major Long of 3 KRR in the WD of 80 Infantry Brigade and attached is this sketch of St Eloi showing The Mound. Courtesy TNA WO 95/2260 Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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