10th Service Battalion Welsh Regiment

[mametzwood]

Hello All,

I am currently researching the Rhondda Pals and looking for any documents, information that Pals of the forum may have. Garron, a member on the forum has been kind enough to give me some copies of the July war diary. I am also looking for any pictures, memoirs or information that forum members may have who are willing to share.

There is no definitive history or book on the Rhondda Pals 10th or 13th Battalion and my ultimate aim is to correct this as Bernard Lewis has with his Swansea Battalion book.

Any information or help would be greatly appreciated.

SWB

[Moonraker]

Several references have been noted to a Welsh battalion having to be disbanded at, or "marched away" from, Codford Camp. Wiltshire in 1914 and one suggests it was recruited from South Wales miners. This would indicate the 10th Welsh Regiment (1st Rhondda), recruitment to which commenced in the Rhondda Valley on September 5, 1914. Later that month, it went to Codford as part of the 76th Brigade, 25th Division, but on the 30th moved to join other units raised in Wales. During September there were few amenities at Codford but the weather was good, and two or three week seems hardly long enough for patriotic fervour to turn into serious discontent; however the 10th's departure may have led to speculation at a time when rumour and gossip were rife. In September concern was expressed about new Welsh battalions being trained alongside English units (even the speaking of Welsh being banned), with David Lloyd George on the 19th suggesting a separate Welsh division; the 10th's move could have resulted from such lobbying, though Kitchener did not agree to the formation of a Welsh division until the end of October. F T Mullins, in his recollections held at the Imperial War Museum, notes that when he reported to Exeter Barracks just after the outbreak of the war he was put in a room full of Welshmen. His unit, the 10th Devonshires, moved still in civilian clothes, to Codford (actually the nearby hamlet of Stockton). After two months of appalling weather, B Coy, nearly all Welshmen, rioted but quietened down after a dressing down from the colonel. This incident probably contributed to the story of a battalion having to be marched away.

Moonraker

[mametzwood]

Many thanks Moonraker, that is an excellent piece of information.

SWB

[high wood]

One of the most prized photographs in my collection. Officers of the 10th (S) Battalion, The Welsh Regiment, (1st Rhondda).

[high wood]

Closeup

[mametzwood]

High Wood,

Many Thanks that is outstanding

SWB

[Bernard_Lewis]

Well done SWB and good luck with the research! Send along (PM etc.) any questions that you think I can help with and I'll see what I can do.

I'm a bit hamstrung at present as we are renovating the last (small) bedroom that doubles as a study for me. All my books/notes etc. are in the loft, garage, under the stairs etc. I'll not be back to 'normal' until about late May/early June depending on plastering and painting etc. After that the odd look up will be easier.

I have the history of the Welch Regt (by Whitehorn - pre 1914, and Marden - post 1914) as well as Munby. I also have one that covers thre last 5 weeks of the war from the viewpoint of - from memory - the 33rd Div and the Welsh Div. Plus the SWB and RWF histories.

I have a photo of offciers of all Welsh regiments (Monmouths excepted) that included a few 10th chappies - I'd have to check who's in it but could send copies; that will be June too though (lots on here at present never mind the books being all over the place).

Stick it the Welsh! I look forward to the results.

Bernard

[high wood]

The names of the officers in the photograph are as follows:

Back row.

Lt Robert Jesse Adams Roberts.

2nd Lt Henry Herbert Marsh. D, Coy. KiA 12th February 1916.

2nd Lt Mark Hepper Merry. C, Coy. Later 13th Battalion Welsh Regiment.

Lt James Alexander Llewellyn Draffin.

Lt Lionel White. KiA 19th March 1916.

Lt Wilfred Webster Tait. DoW 19th December 1915 attached 7th South Lancashire Regiment.

Lt Reginald English Rumsey. B, Coy.

Chaplain-Captain Hugh Jones.

Middle row.

Lt Edward Heskett-Roberts. R.A.M.C.

Lt William Thomas Polkinghorne.

2nd Lt Thomas Yale Lloyd. KiA 12th July 1916. Mametz Wood.

Lt Frank Badham

2nd Lt Leslie Samuel Henderson. B, Coy.

2nd Lt Thomas Humprey Hesketh. Died 28th January 1919.

Lt and Quartermaster F S King.

Lt Charles Robert Terrett. (Transport officer).

2nd Lt D. J. Walters.

Captain Talfryn James

2nd Lt George Jones.

Captain Dai Jones. KiA 12th July 1916. Mametz Wood.

Front row.

Captain Leonard Newton.

Captain Krabbe. (Brigade Instructor of Musketry).

Major F.C. Coatte. (Coath).

Major T.P. George. (V.O.) 2nd in command.

Colonel E.L. Holloway. Commanding Officer. relinquished command 8th November 1915.

Captan & Adjt M.A. Francis.

Lt Edward William Lawrence. R.A.M.C. KiA 10th July 1916.

Captain Horatio John Parkhurst.

Captain Tom Ivor-Davies. Wounded 10th July 1916.

Lying down.

Lt Daniel Davies. (O.C. Machine Gun Section). DoW 10th September 1917.

2nd Lt Albert Green. Wounded 10th July 1916.

[high wood]

2nd Lieutenant Henry Herbert Marsh's headstone in the Le Touret Military Cemetery, Richebourg-L'avoue.

[mametzwood]

Bernard, High Wood,

Many Thanks to you both and look forward to hopefully furthering my research.

Regards

SWB

[high wood]

A stamp from the back of an envelope that came with the Officers' photograph.

[larney]

I have a couple of photos of officers of both battalions which I have stumbled across while researching the 15th Welsh, and the war diary for the 10th Welsh January/ February 1918 when they disbanded. I also have quite a few photos of war graves and the panels on the various war memorials on the Western Front. If they are of interest, drop me a PM, and I'll e-mail you some bits.

Good luck,

Steve.

[Copper6197]

SWB:

I trust your research into the 10th Service Battalion is still progressing. If needed I have copies of their War Diary upon their arrival in France in Jan/Feb. 1916. Have you checked with the Royal Regiment of Wales re any records?

George

[Guest rol123]

There are a number of letters in the National Library of Wales form Captain Dafydd (Dai, David) Jones. His first letter home is on headed notepaper from the Queen's Hotel Rhyl, to which he has added in his own hand, 1^st Rhondda Battalion. At the time he is a Second Lieutenant. The majority of the letters are in welsh. He begins by justifying to his mother why he left College at Aberystwyth without her knowing. Most of the other letters are from a loving son enquiring about his mothers health and thanking her for her letters. One letter is addressed from N.Camp, Morn Hill , Winchester. Another on headed notepaper '10^th Service Battalion Welch Regiment, (1^st Rhondda). Several of these letters mention the wet weather. Very few of his letters are dated but I have seen 11/12/15 on one letter from Winchester. His next letter is his first letter back from France is addressed 10^th Welsh Regt, 114^th Inf Brigade, 38^th Division, B E F. There are about 50+ letters in all but the one I found most interesting was a letter in English dated 28/8/16 from E. J. Griffiths a friend who had been injured by the same shell that killed Capt. Jones on July 12th.

This letter to Capt. Jones' mother details the days and times of attack leading up to his death in Mametz Wood. He mentions that Dai had been made Second in command of the Battalion and " Before all our battalion had left the trench to attack the colonel was wounded, hence the word of command & directing the whole battalion devolved on Dai. The trust on him was amply justified during the two days we were in the wood. He was everywhere seeing to everything with spirits that cheered every officer & man who came into contact with him." ……." We were relived about 7 o'clock on Wednesday morning. Dai sent all of the other Officers & men out of the wood. I stayed behind with him while he gave some information to the new officers. In about 20 minutes time we started off through the wood together and were nearly out of it when that shell burst killing (wounding crossed out) him and wounding me". This letter is 7 pages long detailing part of the events of Mametz Wood. I have a pictue of his name on the Thiepval Memorial which I will try and upload later.

[Guest rol123]

[/size]

A picture of Captain Jones' name on the Thiepval Memorial.

[Guest Gareth Jones]

Hello,

sorry to butt in on this topic - I'm new to the Forum and looking for any information related to Welsh Regiment during WW1 in particular my Great Grandfather - Charles Amos Banks - a coal miner at Bedwas who joined the Welsh Regiment (I believe 10th/13th Service Battalion - as family records indicate he saw service at Mametz). He later was transferred to RWF - I do not know why. If anyone has any hints of where I can start looking - also as to how I might work out his Battalion from his service number (I can then go online at National Archives for the War Diary) I would be extremely grateful.

His MIC has him entering the field on 22 June 1915 - from the different battalion service records I can't work out where that would put him - perhaps he arrived as a replacement?

His service number for Welsh/Welch Regiment is: 30808

His service number for RWF is: 42207

Thanks for any help...

[Bernard_Lewis]

Hmm. The 10th and 13th Welsh didn't get overseas until early December 1915. So June is a bit too early for them.

Bernard

[larney]

9th Welsh I'd think?

Steve.

[NeilEvans]

My great uncle (pictured) served with the 9th Welsh, he entered France 18/07/1915. He enlisted late August 1914 service number being 13575.

neil

[larney]

9th (Service) Battalion

Formed at Cardiff September 1914-K2- to Salisbury Plain in 58th Brigade, 19th Division. November 1914 to Basingstoke in billets. January 1915 Weston-super-Mare. May 1915 Perham Down. July 1915 landed at Havre. 11.11.18 58th Brigade, 19th Division France; Wargnies; north of Le Quesnoy.

The only way to tell for sure is to get copies of his medal roll via one of the researchers. His MIC is no use, but the MEdal Roll will tell you which battalion he was with for sure, but I would say he was 9th Welsh.

Steve.

[evolution]

The 10th Welsh was raised by Mr D Watts Morgan, the miners leader, who on the 5/9/14 started recruting for the Batt in the Rhondda Valley. The first CO was Colonel E. Holloway, Indian Army retired, who was succeded in dec 1915 by L/Col P.E.Rickets M.V.O. A officer of the Indian Cavalry.

The 1st Rhondda's were comprised of miners, from the bredth of the Rhondda valley.

It was BRGD in the 114th with the 13th-14th-15th Welch

As to being a "pals" Battalion, the only Battalion at the time that was truly reconised as a "pals" was the 11th Welch. This Battalion was raised solely from within the confines of Cardiff, and every man that enlisted should bring 6 mates with him, and from this the nikname Cardiff "Pals" Battalion came. They commenced to recrute late Aug 1914, from only proffesonal men, clerks and tradesmen, under the name of the "Cardiff Commercial Battalion". The 11th Welch was known as the Batt of specialists.

I had always thought that The 16th City of Cardiff Battalion was "pals", but it seems not, and I can not also find any refrence to the 14th Swansea Battalion, of the time that it was a "pals" although I have read a very good book written about this Battalion called the "Swansea Pals"

I stand to be corrected though!!

[clive_hughes]

SWB,

if you want to look at the minutiae of the raising of the 10th & 13th Welsh, book yourself into the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth.

They have there the Welsh Army Corps papers, a very large collection of files which was preserved by O.W.Owen, the Secretary to the Welsh National Executive Committee who were tasked with creating the proposed WAC (later shrank to just the 38th Division).

I trawled through this lot literally for weeks, many years ago, before the collection was catalogued. I still have my notes, though I was looking for North Wales units mainly. I know that there were a couple of recruiting handouts/posters for the Rhonddas included, as well as recruiting/desertion/transfer statistics for each unit, and there may be more besides. Best book a B&B for the week...

LST_164

[Bernard_Lewis]

I'm pretty sure that there is a post on here somewhere that lists the official 'Pals' battalions and the Swansea Pals (14th Welsh) appear in that. That said, from the records of the time I never saw them referred to as 'the pals' as a battalion description. It was more 'Swansea's Own'.

Its more or less true to say that the battalion was raised largely from the men who lived and/or worked in the town. There were some from neighbouring towns too (Neath/Port Talbot etc.) Many of them had been 'pals' at school or work. There were Irishmen, Englishmen etc. too but - at first - they all seemed to have a very close link to the town. The mayor of Swansea led the appeal for men and his son joined and was killed during a trench raid in 1916.

Bernard

[evolution]

The 9th Btn took part in the battle of Loo's, with the 2nd and 6th Btns, and were hammered in there first attack.

[evolution]

Cant believe I forgot the 41st Foot! 1st Btn