cockney tone Posted 30 December , 2007 Share Posted 30 December , 2007 Pal's, over the christmas period I had the wonderful opportunity of visiting Jordan, during a trip into the desert area of Wadi Rum our guide showed us a carving in the rocks of Lawrence of Arabia made by some of his Bedouin force, not a great likeness but thought it might be of interest. regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom compton Posted 30 December , 2007 Share Posted 30 December , 2007 i dont know about that scottie the chin just right .tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin astill Posted 30 December , 2007 Share Posted 30 December , 2007 Being Muslims I would have thought it very dodgy attempting to make an image of God's creation. Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 December , 2007 Share Posted 30 December , 2007 Being Muslims I would have thought it very dodgy attempting to make an image of God's creation. In fact given the Whatabi sect of Islam his force was made up of - totally unbelievable. More likely done by some of the Quajah (Foreigners) European members or done later by someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 31 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2007 Tom, on reflection and comparing with a photo the chin is rather good! Edwin and Centurian, thank you for your comments, we were also shown some carving in the rocks nearby of camels and human figures 'apparently' carved at least 1k years ago, my wife was not convinced! The whole area was fantastic and looked as though it had not changed for a very long time and would be recognised by Lawrence if he could return! very atmospheric. Regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 December , 2007 Share Posted 31 December , 2007 Ancient carvings of men are quite feasible, if they are more than say 1500 years old as Jordan would not be Muslim then. Again about 800 ish years is posible as some of the proscriptions were not so rigourously enforced in those days. In Lawrences day there was a reimposition of the more fundemental 'values' in that area. The date on the carving is most odd being a combination of modern western numerals and roman numerals but however you translate it (1914 or 1915) is wrong for the period it proports to represent. Given that the inscription is in arabic (it would be interesting to see a translation) one would expect the date to be arabic as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 31 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2007 Centurian, the plot thickens? perhaps someone will come up with an Arabic translation. Moving slightly away from the Great War (sorry Mods) please see the said Camels! regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 December , 2007 Share Posted 31 December , 2007 Scottie To misquote Nelson 'I see no ships (of the desert)' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 31 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2007 try again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 31 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2007 and a shot of the Seven Pillars of wisdom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 December , 2007 Share Posted 31 December , 2007 quote: the plot thickens? perhaps someone will come up with an Arabic translation Translation may be a problem except for the date, where the internet helps, see http://www.islamicfinder.org/dateConversion.php Appendix II of Seven Pillars gives TEL's movements between 01/01/1917 & 08/10/1918 that being translated is [if I've worked this machine OK] 7 Raby` al-awal 1335 A.H. to 2 MuHarram 1337 A.H. TEL took the name from the Book of Proverbs (ix.I) 'Wisdom hath builded a house: she hath hewn out her seven pillars' He used it for an earlier work on seven cities, which he then decided not to publish because he thought the work immature. He kept only the title, as a 'memento' Great photographs and yes, there is something about the chin, mouth etc that reminds one of TEL Happy New Year Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 December , 2007 Share Posted 31 December , 2007 Thanks Micheal but the date translation doesn't help - the equiv Islamic year would be 1336 but even if you translate this to arabic numerals (contrary to what they are called we do not use arabic numerals only an arabic numbering system [which in fact derives from India]) you don't get anything that looks like the number in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Caul Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Hello, my Arabic hasnt been practised for some time, but as far as I can see, the numbers translate as 1917. Arabic numerals are written left to right (opposite to script). 1's and 9's look pretty much the same as ours, so the first 3 numbers translate normally, ie 191. The last number (V) is 7 in Arabic. So 191V is 1917. (if the V had been upside-down it would have been an 8). I've travelled around Wadi Rum a couple of times by camel (not for a few years now though) and can't recall this carving. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 You're right (shows how quickly one forgets the numbers , if it had been 1915 which would have looked like 1910 I think I'd have got it - wake up grey cells) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Caul Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Further to my last post, I think I would agree with Centurion that it's unlikely to have been done by Lawrence's force. From what I can gather he wasn't idolised by Arabs in the same way that he was by Westerners, so i just can't see them carving his likeness in rock. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Probably good for the tourist trade though which might give a clue to its origin and date. As one notorious Cornish tourist guide used to say "even ancient legends got to start sometime" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Caul Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Probably good for the tourist trade though which might give a clue to its origin and date. As one notorious Cornish tourist guide used to say "even ancient legends got to start sometime" Some of the tourist guides definitely like to play on the Lawrence thing: 'this is the spring that Lawrence drank from' etc. If that is exposed rock I would have thought the features would have blurred a little by now as the rock isnt particularly hard as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 On an old barn on the Island there is a carved sailing ship which according to local legend shows the barn was used by smugglers. Nice tale, only it was not on the barn prior to the introduction of charabanc trips in the mid twenties. Or so I was told.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Hello, That all looks rather dubious. First, as someone pointed out--making likenesses of living things was/is a no-no. The date of 1917 seems a bit odd coming from an Bedouin. I would have thought they'd use the Hejira. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 2 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Pal's thank you for your interest and comments, there was also a carving nearby of a local on the rocks but stupidily I appear to have deleted the photo from my camera. The locals appear to be gearing up for the tourist trade as our drive into the Wadi Rum commenced at a rather nice visitors centre. The drive into the Wadi Rum was spectacular, and my wifes face was a picture when it dawned on her that I had yet again got a 'War' interest into a family holiday! On my return to the UK I was surprised to read that Lawrence was even involved in an action in Petra which we visited and was a magnificent sight! Regards and Happy New year to you all. Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 27 October , 2008 Share Posted 27 October , 2008 When I was at Wadi Rum I was told by a knowledgeable Jordanian that the carving of Lawrence of Arabia was created in the 1930s. On the other side of the same rock is a carving of Abdullah the son of Sherif Hussein ibn Ali. If the carvings were completed in 1917 it would seem more likely that Sherif Hussein's face would have been carved in the rock rather that his son, who in 1921 became Emir of Trans-Jordan, the area now known as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 27 October , 2008 Share Posted 27 October , 2008 This is the face on the other side, of Abdulla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 27 October , 2008 Share Posted 27 October , 2008 And a photo of the rock, showing both faces. It is a wonderful place, and I would strongly recommend a few days in Petra, to see the city itself and Wadi Rum Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 27 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2008 Myrtle, thanks for reminding me of my wonderful trip last Christmas and thanks for adding these pictures. You could well be correct about it being carved later, I was also very suspicious that the carved pyramid I purchased in Cairo was not as original as the seller claimed (Due to Made in Hong Kong being stamped underneath it! ) Alan, as you say a wonderful place to visit especially if you can take in Petra as well, Regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 27 October , 2008 Share Posted 27 October , 2008 Scottie Alan's pictures. I agree that Petra is a must if visiting Jordan. Did you climb up to the place of sacrifice and the Monastery? Such amazing views. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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