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RodB

East Africa Campaign

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cahoehler
RodB said:
post-1432-1206745272.jpg

This was posted by SteveE at [Broken link removed]

The difference in barrel length is 30 inches and on second looks this gun looks closer to 120 inches bore than 150 inches ..

Rod

The image below came from http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/local/qf122.htm and has been 'enhanced' but the original lacks resolution.

A better quality image would really help as there differences in the barrel profiles and we would not have to measure a skew distance on the original image and then compare that measurement with the soldier of unknown height next to the wheel.

Carl

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RodB

Some visible identifiers are starting to emerge :

12 cwt : straight muzzle, medium length jacket (approx 1/2 total gun length), breech lug flush with end of breech

18 cwt : flared muzzle, long jacket (approx 2/3 total gun length), breech lug short of end of breech

Compare with this shot of the 12 pdr 12 cwt AA gun : a standard 12 cwt gun apart from the additional recuperator :

QF12pdr12cwtAAplatform.jpg

see also this shot of a "76 mm 50-cal" Briitish built gun from the 1890s at Vina del Mar, which could well be a 12 pdr 18 cwt equivalent sold for export :

17-SIx10.jpg

Mr May mentions both Vickers and Coventry Ordnance as manufactures , but it has the Hotchkiss/Elswick look to it. His comments translated via Google :

"In its early sheet appeared as Canyon 76 / 50 of English origin produced by the Coventry Ordnance Works

This cannon, along with the artillery of 47 mm and 57 was part of the defense QF antitorpederas Chilean unit of the early twentieth century. Because this canyon has misplaced the plate it reads: Mounting Vickers Armstrong 3 / 50 (76.2 mm) English. Cannons firing rapid battery tertiary Cruise Acorazado "O'Higgins" in service in the Navy between 1898 cannons 1933.Estos and gave protection to the cruise torpedo attack from other units and light weapons. Maximum reach 9100 meters. 16 shots / min. with 10 men .-

Two twin cannons on this are in one of the entrances to the Naval and Maritime Museum."

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cahoehler

RodB

Here is scan of a drawing by John Lambert at http://www.lambert-plans.com and shows that this gun was uncomplicated and intended to be used dismounted ie on a timber baulk as Percy Scott so famously did or on a proper travelling carriage

Carl

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RodB

Here's an old, apparently WWI, gun at Newhaven fort :

800px-QF12pounder12cwtNewhavenFort1March

The drawing's barrel looks like the later monobloc gun (Mk V ) to me..

here's a WWII Mk V :

Trawler12pdr12cwtWWII.jpg

really 2 different guns.

To me the "East Africa" gun likes like the 12 cwt, based on the jacket and muzzle.

Rod

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SteveE
I really would like to see the Handbook for the 12-Pr. Quick-Firing Guns 1913 at TNA / PRO (Kew) under ADM 186/189 and (hint, hint, wish, wish) these as well

ADM 186 / 877 Handbook for the 4-inch Mark VII and VIII breech loading (BL) guns 1908

ADM 186 / 874 Handbook for the 4.7-inch quick firing gun 1903

ADM 186 / 180 Handbook for 6-inch Breech loading Mark VII and Mark VIII guns 1904

Carl

First one's a definite but I've added the others to my list and, when I do finally get to the archives, will endeavour to get them copied etc. as well, if time/other research permits.

Regards

Steve

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cahoehler
. . . . as Percy Scott so famously did . . .

Rod

An enlarged but cropped version.

Carl

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cahoehler
. . . . will endeavour to get them copied . . .

Steve

Thanks again.

At your convenience.

Carl

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RodB

This is the only Definite shot of a 12 pdr 18 cwt I've found, on the roof of X turret of HMS Dreadnought :

QF12pdr18cwtGunsXTurretHMSDreadnought.jp

The length of the jacket is just evident. The proportions appear to match our E Africa photo.

And heres a blowup and digital manipulation of our E Africa gun's breech :

[Broken link removed]

The breech appears a heavier unit than seen on the 12 cwt, screwed over the barrel.

Rod

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cahoehler
The breech appears a heavier unit than seen on the 12 cwt, screwed over the barrel.

Rod

Breeches :wacko:

Not QF 12-pdr XX-cwt but some QF 4.7-inch images to show that breeches are complicated and also seemingly not often photographed in detail.

Not sure of the details but within the QF guns there were changes from the original, to an "A" modification and then to a "B" which is a single-motion breech for land service.

The photographs came from Paul Benyon and the drawing from an early Treatise on Carriages.

This is one of the guns at Ladysmith.

Carl

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cahoehler

Rod

The drawing of the "A" modification.

Carl

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cahoehler

Rod

Captioned as "Joe Chamberlain" at Magersfontein.

This is probably is the 3-motion breech (you can just see the vertical handle).

The two guns on wooden platforms at Ladysmith apparently came from storage at Simon's Town while "Joe Chamberlain" was taken from HMS Doris also at Simon's Town. To belabour a point; HMS Powerful only transported the Ladysmith guns from Simon's Town to Durban and was not a donor.

Carl

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SteveE
I really would like to see the Handbook for the 12-Pr. Quick-Firing Guns 1913 at TNA / PRO (Kew) under ADM 186/189

Carl

Just to update you to the fact that I haven't forgotten this request, I've been to Kew twice (the last time was a week ago) since your original request and on both occasions this piece was unavailable to me. Hopefully third time lucky?

Regards

Steve

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cahoehler
. . . Hopefully third time lucky?

Steve

At your convenience.

ororkep has also been looking and has some images.

I will consolidate and circulate copies as they become available.

Thanks again

Carl

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