223rd Bn Scandinavian Canadians & 197th Vikings of

[Guest apisani]

Hi,

I am looking for any informations on these two battalions:

223rd Bn Scandinavian Canadians & 197th Vikings of Canada.

I know they mainly was Scandinavian men serving in them - but I don't know much else.

When did they leave for England. Were they broken up and sent to the front as reserves in other battalion. If so -was there any pattern or system in how this happened or were they just scattered in different kinds of units?

Anyone know?

[mordac]

Here's the basic information on the two battalions:

197th Battalion:

Drafts were sent only from this battalion. They recruited in Western Canada and were mobilized in Winnipeg. Their serial number block was from 913001 to 916000. They were formed on July 15, 1917 and disbanded on September 15, 1920. The drafts from the 197th were absorbed by the 11th Reserve Battalion.

223rd Battalion:

They recruited in Military Districts 10, 11, & 13 and were mobilized in Winnipeg. Their serial number block was from 294001 to 297000. They were formed on July 15, 1917 and disbanded on September 15, 1920. The 223rd was absorbed by the 11th Reserve Battalion.

Neither of these battalions published histories of their war service.

Garth

[jhill]

I have recently become aware that one of my great uncles enlisted with the 223rd (Canadian Scandinavians) Battalion. Upon checking up a bit it seems that many or most of the early recruits were enlisted in Winnipeg from Icelanders in that area. Later on, recruiters went on the road through parts of the prairies known to have Scandinavian populations.

In the early days Canadian recruitment was organized (or sometimes disorganized!) following the patterns imported from the old country. The system of “Pals” battalions was thought to be “great stuff” and battalions were raised by any “affinity” group that came up with an idea. The 223rd was one of these. However, by 1917 the pool of potential recruits had been pretty well picked over. Most Scandinavians who wanted to join up had enlisted with other battalions. (There was a sizable number of Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians in the Edmonton area, for example, who had enlisted early on). To fill their ranks, these “affinity”units sent recruiters across the country taking up anyone who showed up at the office. This resulted in charges by the local Military Districts of “poaching” and also netted men rejected by other battalions.

You may ask about my “Scandinavian” great uncle. He was Irish, going to school, and lived with his parents in Calgary, where there were many local battalions to choose from. He went all the way out to Claresholm (at considerable trouble, no doubt) to enlist with the 223rd. Family tradition has it that he was underage. Presumably he was too well known at the Calgary recruiting offices. Later on he seems to been transfered to a Montreal Irish battalion.

[mordac]

Upon checking up a bit it seems that many or most of the early recruits were enlisted in Winnipeg from Icelanders in that area.  Later on, recruiters went on the road through parts of the prairies known to have Scandinavian populations.

Hi James:

There is a large Icelandic population (or descendants of Icelanders) in the Inter-Lake area north of Winnipeg. The town of Gimli, Manitoba has one of the largest populations of Icelanders living outside of Iceland. Presumably this is area where most of the 223rd were recruited from.

Garth

[Fabiansson]

Extremely interesting to hear about this, as I am Swedish! Never heard of it before!

I have come across a few autobiographical books from Scandinavians who fought on the Western Front, but never heard of this ("Vikings" thus reminds me of Waffen-SS Division Viking...).

• Thomas Dinesen, No Man's Land. En Dansker med Canadierne ved Vestfronten, Kopenhagen 1929; 1965, 1985. Thomas Dinesen was the rather famous Danish female writer Karen Blixen's brother. He went to New York from Denmark and enlisted at a Canadian recruiting office. He arrived on the Western Front during spring 1918

• Luther Nelson, Omkring Verdun. En norsk-amerikansk students oplevelser i ambulancetjenesten, Chicago 1917; 1918. Nelson was son to a Norwegian-American senator. He joined the Red Cross and came to Verdun during autumn 1916

• Lyder Ramstad, Med tyskerne på vestfronten, Oslo 1930. The Norwegian Ramstad had to become Prussian before he could enlist in the German army. Summer 1916 he was on the Somme. Strangly enough, he came under command of a Swedish offier, Carl Belfrage, another volunteer, who had been in the German army since 1915. Belfrage's diary is published: Bengt Belfrage, Vanvettet på västfronten. Krigsminnen. Ur kapten Carl Belfrages dagbok, Stockholm 2001. Ramstad writes that he took three British soldiers as prisoners 1916, all three Swedish volunteers. Is it really true? He writes that they were Swedish sailors, enlisted in Britain.

• Claës von Rosen, Det stora äventyret. Minnen från livet i fält, Stockholm 1920. The Swedish officer Claës von Rosen arrived at the Western front 1916, and served in the German army during the battles Somme 1916, Champagne 1917. He became division commander 1918.

Does anyone know if any of these in 223rd Bn Scandinavian Canadians and 197th Vikings of Canada served at the front? Would it be possible to trace anyone via CWGC?

/Nils Fabiansson

[Guest apisani]

I did some searches and it seems like most of the scandinavians in 223rd Bn first was in the 11th reserve bn while in England. At the front it seems like the mostly fought with 27th Bn - and some with 78th Bn. I am trying to find out more about this. Keep you posted...

AP

[Neil Burns]

hi Nils,

interesting that you mention a Canadian Recruiting Office in New York in Dineson's book, does the book give any details of the office (location etc.)

This is something that's been bothering me for a while!

Thanks,

Neil

[Terry]

Hi,

Lots of Scandinavians enlisted very early on. I have a 1914-15 Star to 18474 Pte. Carl Boolsen, who enlisted on 17 SEpt.,1914 in the 9th Battalion. He ended up in the 2nd Battalion and was killed in action at 2nd Ypres, 26 April,1915.

He was the son of A.Boolsen and Marie Boolsen, Vester Crogade, 62 B.II Kjo'benhavn, Denmark.

His medals, memorial cross, and plaque were sent to his family iin Denmark in 1922.

[jhill]

I can contribute a few numbers to illustrate the issue:

Of the 1280 or so men of the 66th (Edmonton) Battalion for whom I have a place of birth, at least 13 were born in Norway, Sweden, Iceland, or Denmark (mostly Norway). There are also at least 5 Finns. At least two of these were killed at the front.

This battalion, which recruited mainly during the second half or 1915, was in no way a "Scandinavian" battalion. In addition, it can be assumed that many, if not most, of these fellows were naturalized Canadians.

I suspect this is typical of many prairie battalions.

Incidently, there are references to recruiting officers turning away men born in Italy because they were "born in a neutral country".

[Guest apisani]

This week I started to go thru old local newspapers here in Norway. I found out that these papers often published letters from local boys serving in either the US or Canadian forces. The letters were originally sent to the parents - but they passed them on to the papers. Especially if the person was killed at the front there is a change to find his story in the local paper in his birth town. It's probably the same in Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland.

Antoni

[mordac]

Here's a couple of small notes to add to this thread:

197th Bn (Scandinavian Overseas Battalion):

The Officer Commanding was Lt. Col. H.G. Fonseca and they had a strength of 306 men.

223rd Bn (Manitoba Scandinavians):

The Officer Commanding was Lt. Col. H. Albrechsten and they had a strength of 507 men.

Garth

[Fabiansson]

Dinesen writes that he was not welcome neither at French, British nor US recruiting offices (June 1917). But then he passed, on his way to the Air Force recruiting office (?) office down-town, by chance he writes, the Canadian main recruiting office in the city. He does not mention were it was. They said: "You are Danish? Certainly we want you! Step right in here and let us see if you are fit!" After medical examination the officer recommended him to apply to "Princess Patch" or the "Royal Highlanders". Thereafter he was sent to Montreal 20th June. Dinesen then came to the Royal Highlanders of Canada, "Black Watch" (p. 17-22).

/Nils

Dinesen is down to the right.

[Neil Burns]

Thank you Nils. I know Peter B. Garth (mordac) and I were discussing the existence of a Canadian recruiting office in New York in a previous thread. Very interesting.

Take care,

Neil

[jhill]

But then he passed, on his way to the Air Force recruiting office (?) office down-town, by chance he writes, the Canadian main recruiting office in the city. He does not mention were it was.

[

Lieutenant-Colonel (later Brigadier-General) Cuthbert G. Hoare, the officer commanding Royal Flying Corps (Canada) set up a recruiting centre on Fifth Avenue in New York City during the summer of 1917.

Recruitment of American citizens into the British or Canadian forces was alway a tricky business. Theoretically, recruiters in the U.S. were only allowed to take British subjects living in the States. In practice this limitation was rarely enforced. In Col. Hoare's case there seems to have been active collusion on the part of the American authorities, who were doing a deal under the table to get the R.F.C. to train flyers for the U.S. forces in Texas.

[Neil Burns]

From research regarding Haller's Army the US governments view was the Polish Army in France could recruit volunteers from the US who were not subject to the US draft.

Mostly foreign born non-citizens, this would explain why the CEF would welcome a Dane, it wouldn't cause any friction with the US Authorities. Figuring there was most likely a similar limitation on Canadian recruiting.

interesting,

Neil

[Guest apisani]

This battalion, which recruited mainly during the second half or 1915, was in no way a "Scandinavian" battalion.  In addition, it can be assumed that many, if not most, of these fellows were naturalized Canadians.

I don't remember where - but I think I read something about citizenship and military service in this period. Something that not only the money and adventure were motivation for these young men - but also the possibility to get citizenship quicker or easier? Anyone heard anything regarding this?

[jhill]

Something that not only the money and adventure were motivation for these young men - but also the possibility to get citizenship quicker or easier? Anyone heard anything regarding this?

I have not heard of this being a motivation at the time, although some, undoubtedly, used their war service to claim citizenship later. A celebrated case of this is "Two Gun" Cohen, later bodyguard to Chiang Kai Chek, general in the Chinese army, arms consultant, etc.

At the beginning, military service was considered a privilege rather than an obligation. Men of foreign birth were sometimes discriminated against. Perhaps some jumped at the chance to enlist when the opportunity presented itself in order to prove they were part of the team. At any rate, Scandinavians, like Americans, were quite well integrated into the larger society, and did not have many problems.

As a particular example, I will point out Hakkon Floen. This fellow was already well established in Edmonton society as a co-founder of the Edmonton Ski Club. A group of young “turks?” broke away from the Sons of Norway to introduce skiing to Edmonton. There was a lively controversy between the promoters of this new European innovation and the traditional snowshoe faction. Mr. Floen went overseas with the 49th (Edmonton) Battalion and rose to the rank of Captain. His military and skiing careers both ended when he lost a leg at Courcellette.

Thank you everyone for a very interesting thread.

[Andrew P]

In case anyone is interested there were many Scandanvians who served in the Australian Imperial Force.

My research of soldiers from my local region of Fremantle show many who put their next of kin down as Denmark, Norway etc.

Probably the most noted Scandanavian from Fremantle was

Sergeant Valdemar Karl Ingvarson DCM & Bar of the 44th Bn AIF.

Ingvarson was originally from from Holte in Denmark, but came to live in Fremantle and became a Dairy Farmer, a career which he took up again at the end of the war.

He was actually recommended for a VC, but instead was awarded a Bar to the DCM.

[Jacky Platteeuw]

Following 'Scandinavian' soldiers are comemorated on the Menin Gate. The list is only a enumeration and has not been researched.

NORWAY

GRONNEVOLD, Lance Corporal, R L, 3754. 12th Coy. Australian Machine Gun Corps. 7th June 1917. Age 29. (Served as "GRENWELL"). Born in Norway. Panel 31

HELSETH, Private, NIELS, 1009061. 46th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Saskatchewan Regt.). 26th October 1917. Age 27. Son of Svend and Ane Helseth, of Steinsgrenda, Christiansund, Norway. Panel 18 - 26 - 28

KARELSEN, Private, KONRAD, 21952. 47th Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 7th June 1917. Age 19. Son of Karl Henrik Knutsen and Anna Karelsen, of Laxevaag, Bergen, Norway. Native of Nygaard, Norway. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

LARSEN, Private, JOHAN LUDVIG, 18366. 4th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Central Ontario Regt.). 23rd April 1915. Age 25. Son of Peter Andreas Larsen and Augusta Larsen, of Meinichs Gate 14, Oslo, Norway. Panel 18 - 24 - 26 - 30

NILSEN, Private, OSKAR, 2721. 32nd Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 30th September 1917. Age 27. Son of Carl and Hanna Nilsen, of Fredrikshald, Norway. Native of Fistedalen, Norway. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

DENMARK

ALBRECTSEN, Private, CARL EMIL, 294080. 27th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regt.). 7th November 1917. Age 24. Son of Emil Albrectsen and Martha Albrectsen, of Svinget 28, Kjobenhavn C, Denmark. Native of Svendborg, Denmark. Voluntarily reverted from officer's rank in order to proceed overseas. Panel 24 - 26 - 28 - 30

BOOLSEN, Private, CARL STEEN, 18474. 2nd Bn. Canadian Infantry (Eastern Ontario Regt.). 26th April 1915. Age 22. Son of A. Boolsen and Marie Boolsen, of Vester Crogade, 62 B.II Kjo'benhavn, Denmark. Panel 10 - 26 - 28

CHRISTIANSEN, Private, EINAR, 70183. 26th Bn. Canadian Infantry (New Brunswick Regt.). Killed in action 17th June 1916. Age 24. Son of Chr. and Marie Christiansen, of Brohuset, Sogade Silkeborg, Denmark. Panel 26 - 28

GEHLERT, Private, MARIUS, 1042. No. 3 Coy. Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (Eastern Ontario Regt.). 8th May 1915. Age 25. (Served as GILLETT). Son of Anna C. Gehlert, of Ribe, Denmark, and the late H. P. Tehlert. Panel 10 - 58

HANSEN, Private, RASMUS MARTIN, 2788. 15th Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 17th October 1917. Age 40. Son of Rasmus and Sine Hansen; husband of Mabel Hall (formerly Hansen), of "Rose Hill," Mooloolah, Queensland. Native of Denmark. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

JESPERSEN, Private, J P, 424959. 49th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Alberta Regt.). 5th June 1916. Age 23. Son of Marie Jespersen, of Jersore, Bogense, Denmark, and the late K. K. Jespersen. Panel 24 - 28 - 30

JONGE-HOYER, Private, CHRISTIAN, 226. 31st Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 26th - 27th September 1917. Age 30. Son of Christian Julius and Elise Bergitti Jonge-Hoyer, of St. Paulsgade, Aarhus, Denmark. Native of Horsens, Jutland. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

LUND, Private, CHRISTIAN LUDWIG, 3826. 49th Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 15th July 1917. Son of Christian Ludvig Lund and Kathrine Dales (his wife), of Kingsthorpe, Queensland. Native of Copenhagen, Denmark. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

SORENSEN, Private, SOREN CHRISTIAN, 3635A. 31st Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 26th September 1917. Age 33. Son of Karl Tens Sorensen and Anna Sorensen, of Skelskoi, Denmark. Native of Niesby. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

SWEDEN

BERGSTEDT, Private, ANDREW, 2015199. 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles (British Columbia Regt.). 31st October 1917. Age 33. (Served as BERGMAN), Son of 0. Aug. and Johanna Bergstedt, of Sandliden, Kville, Sweden. Panel 18 - 24 - 26 - 30

NORD, Private, P, 18779. 2nd Bn. Canadian Infantry (Eastern Ontario Regt.). 26th April 1915. Age 33. Son of Martin and Brita Pettersson, of Haste, Rodon, Jamtland, Sweden. Panel 10 - 26 - 28

OLSON, Private, EDVIN ROBERT, 267083. 5th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Saskatchewan Regt.). 10th November 1917. Age 21. Son of Mr. and Mrs. Ola Anderson, of Vombs, Weberod, Skane, Sweden. Panel 18 - 26 - 28

OLSON, Private, K A, 1000411. 43rd Bn. Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regt.). 26th October 1917. Age 29. Son of August and Maria Olson, of Gjutaren, No. 5, Trollhattan, Sweden. Panel 24 - 26 - 28 - 30

WIKSTROM, Private, OSCAR, 2271A. 50th Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 16th October 1917. Son of Erik Axel and Thomasine Wikstrom, of 5, Skepparegaton St., Gottenburg, Sweden. Native of Landskrona. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

FINLAND

ASPLUND, Private, HUGO, 6706. 15th Bn. Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 15th October 1917. Age 30. Son of Josefina Elisabeth Haapaniemi, of Helsingfors, Hoosgatan, 19/21 Makivens, Skydds, Finland. Native of Wasa, Finland. Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31

PUURUNEN, Private, A, 267937. 28th Bn. Canadian Infantry (Saskatchewan Regt.). 6th November 1917. Age 26. Son of Anna Puurunen, of Fisalmi, Ruotaonmaki, Finland. Panel 18 - 26 - 28

SANDHOLM, Private, JULIUS KONSTANTIN, 10495. 2nd Regt. (Inf.). South African Infantry. 20th September 1917. Age 23. Son of Maria Julina Sandholm, of Ulverso, Aland, Finland. Panel 15 - 16 and 16A

Jacky

[mordac]

Taking the Canadians from the list Jacky has posted, here's where they originally enlisted:

HELSETH, Private, NIELS, 1009061. 46th Bn.

Originally with 229th Bn.

LARSEN, Private, JOHAN LUDVIG, 18366. 4th Bn.

Originally with 9th Bn.

ALBRECTSEN, Private, CARL EMIL, 294080. 27th Bn.

Originally with 223rd Bn.

BOOLSEN, Private, CARL STEEN, 18474. 2nd Bn.

Originally with 9th Bn.

CHRISTIANSEN, Private, EINAR, 70183. 26th Bn.

Originally with 26th Bn.

GEHLERT, Private, MARIUS, 1042. No. 3 Coy. PPCLI

Originally with PPCLI

JESPERSEN, Private, J P, 424959. 49th Bn.

Originally with 45th Bn.

BERGSTEDT, Private, ANDREW, 2015199. 2nd CMR

Originally with 6th Regiment Draft

NORD, Private, P, 18779. 2nd Bn.

Originally with 2nd Bn.

OLSON, Private, EDVIN ROBERT, 267083. 5th Bn.

Originally with 214th Bn. (no attestation papers on-line so couldn't be verified)

OLSON, Private, K A, 1000411. 43rd Bn.

Originally with 226th Bn.

PUURUNEN, Private, A, 267937. 28th Bn.

Originally with 214th BN.

The breakdown by province is:

B.C. - 1

Alberta - 2

Saskatchewan - 3

Manitoba - 3

Ontario - 2

New Brunswick - 1

That's a 2:1 ratio for the prairie provinces.

Garth

[Guest apisani]

Taking the Canadians from the list Jacky has posted, here's where they originally enlisted:

Thanks Garth!

I'll try to summarize this thread in an PDF-file and post it. A lot of useful knowledge here about scandinavians on the western front. Really! I'm working on an article: "Norsemen on the Westernfront" so this has been really helpful!

Antoni

[jhill]

I'm working on an article: "Norsemen on the Westernfront"

An article? Oh dear! You may need to expand it to a book. :-)

Here is one more fellow who has an interesting history. Major Peter Anderson of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Battalion ( late of the 101st Edmonton Fusiliers) was captured at Ypres in April, 1915 and was sent to a Prisoner of War camp near Dresden. By October he was back in London. Perhaps you could ask in the Home and POW forum to see if he was, in fact, the only British officer to successfully escape captivity. He was certainly the only Canadian officer to do so.

Major Anderson, born in Denmark, ran a successful brickworks here before the war.

[jhill]

I could not resist the temptation to prolong this thread with one more bit of stuff that I have recently come across. This is a clipping from The Daily Bulletin of Monday, February 21, 1916 announcing the setting up of a recruiting office (of sorts!) for the 197th Battalion (Vikings of Canada) in Edmonton. As we know the 197th was headquartered in Winnipeg, but had special permission to recruit outside its home district. By this time most potential recruits had already joined up so business was undoubtedly slow.

[Guest apisani]

Nice clip:-). I have to tell that the local paper here in Kristiansand, Norway (small town on the south coast) also wrote an article about this. Small world:-).

Thanks,

Antoni

[Glosters]

I have just received copies of the nominal rolls for the 197th and 223rd Battalions C.E.F.

The 197th roll is dated 26 Jan. 1917, Port: Halifax, N.S. Ship: S.S. Scandinavian.

The 223rd roll is dated 3 May 1917. Port: Halifax, N.S. Ship: S.S. Justicia.

Each roll contains number, rank, name / Former Corps / Name of Next of Kin / Address of Next of Kin / Country of Birth / Place and date taken on strength.

e.g.

223rd Battalion

294499 L/Cpl. Alfred Ellefson / Norwegian Army / Mrs Anna Ellefson / Nye Kirkegaardsvei, Kongsberg, Norway / Norway / Edmonton 17 June 1916

Steve

p.s. I am off to Finland this afternoon for 2 weeks so can't reply to any queries until I return.