Commissioned From The Ranks in WW1

[keithmroberts]

I am currently trying to confirm whether Pte later 2/Lt Henry Roberts 16/840 West Yorks was a relative of mine. he was described in the Ralph Hudson list of the original members of the 16th as a butcher, and his medal card records his promotion to 2/Lt. in 1918. The card also bears the inscription MC.

I aim to follow him up at the NA later in the month to see whether he did indeed receive an MC.

If he is confirmed as the man I am suspect, he was the son of Herbert Roberts, who was a butcher in Greengates Bradford in 1901. I am hoping that the officers records at the NA will either confirm or deny his connection to Herbert, who was an older brother of my grandfather who served in the ASC and the West Riding Regiment.

Keith

Edit - I have just received a copy of a newspaper image of a photograph of the No 7 (platoon) B company of the 16th West Yorkshires with an article published in 1986 confirming the identity of 2/Lt H Roberts. The heading confirms that after surviving the fighting on the Somme, he was later wounded in the Arras area, before winning his MC in early November 1918. I will add a link to a copy of the image later.

[nigelfe]

The London Scottish only ever commissioned men who had served in their own ranks. I understand this was unique in the British Army. They also regarded themselves as a regiment of 'professional men'. On mobilisation they provided quite large numbers of men to other units and commissioned a fair number of their own during the war who also seem to have gone to other units.

[jeremym]

Phil B

My father, George Oswald Mitchell (G.O.M.), was a pre-war territorial and was mobilised on the very first day of the war as a private in the 1/6th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment. At the time, he had just completed a course in dyestuffs chemistry at Bradford Technical College. After being engaged in front line action in the Neuve Chapelle and Ypres sectors in the spring and early summer of 1915, he was transferred to the newly formed RE Special gas Companies/Brigade and promoted to Corporal. After taking part in the massive gas assault on the first day of the Battle of Loos on 25 September 1915, he took part in many other gas attacks and was promoted Sergeant in October 1917. In October 1918, G.O.M. was posted to an OCTU at Pembroke College, Cambridge, receiving his Commission as a Temporary Second Lieutenant on 14 May 1919, being demobilised shortly afterwards. The Commission was in his old infantry regiment, the West Yorkshires, though when he was placed on the regular army reserve of officers three years later, it was in the Royal Engineers. He served in the LDV/Home Guard in World War II, but I am not sure what rank he was then.

jeremym

(Jeremy Mitchell)

[PhilB]

Thanks for all the posts. Interesting to see what a broad spectrum of men were being commissioned. PIty there`s so little in the way of rankers` memoirs!

[jeremym]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Nov 30 2008, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for all the posts. Interesting to see what a broad spectrum of men were being commissioned. PIty there`s so little in the way of rankers` memoirs!

Phil B

Well, my father, George Oswald Mitchell kept a trench diary when he was a private in the infantry and a corporal in the RE Special gas Brigade which is lodged in the Imperial War Museum and which has been cited by a number of writers, including Philip Warner (The Battle of Loos, 1976, republished 2000), Donald Richter (Chemical Soldiers, 1994), Judith Cook (Priestley, 1997) and Niall Cherry (Most Unfavourable Ground - The Battle of Loos 1915, 2003). I have just published a book based on this ranker's trench diary which is referred to by Kate in the thread on the RE Special Brigade.

jeremym

(Jeremy Mitchell)

[Nigel Marshall]

Hi,

Of the four men I have researched who fit this bill, it is interesting to note that two of the men were employed by their fathers' companies, one being a printers and the other a timber merchants and the other two were clerks, one on the railway and one for the magistrates courts. While none was a pre-war soldier (TF service for one excepted), all saw war service prior to commission, three being infantrymen (one with RND), and one a medic.

Cheers,

Nigel

[PhilB]

I have just published a book based on this ranker's trench diary which is referred to by Kate in the thread on the RE Special Brigade.

jeremym

(Jeremy Mitchell)

Was he commissioned into the RE?

[jeremym]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Dec 1 2008, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was he commissioned into the RE?

Phil B

Having been successively private, corporal and sergeant, George Oswald Mitchell (G.O.M.) was sent in October 1918 to an Officer Cadet Battalion at Pembroke College, Cambridge. He received his Commission as Temporary Second Lieutenant on 14 May 1919, being demobilised shortly afterwards without returning to active service. The Commission was back in his old infantry regiment, the West Yorkshires, though when he was placed on the regular army reserve of officers three years later, on 19 May 1922, it was in the Royal Engineers.

Two of his comrades in the 1/6th Battalion of the West Yorkshires were commissioned from the ranks during the course of the war. There is more information in my recently published book Shrapnel and Whizzbangs - a Tommy in the Trenches 1914-18 (ISBN 97818841041926). I don't want to be thought to be encouraging you to buy this - I am sure your local library will have a copy.

jeremym

(Jeremy Mitchell)

[Staffsyeoman]

Partner's grandfather joined the Army in 1899 in Gosport; originally from Leeds where he worked in his father's bicycle shop. Joined the KRRC as a Rifleman, served in South Africa, stayed in. Sergeant in 1914. Quickly Colour Sergeant then Company Sergeant Major. DCM at First Ypres. Commissioned in the Field as Lt in December 1914; wounded January 1915; Home Service (Training) Battalion 1915-16; transferred to MGC. Ended war as a Captain.

Returned to the KRRC from MGC late 1920; resigned commission 1921. Family legend suggests he left the Army as either a. his formidable wife did not wish to go to India with the Army and two very young children or b. he knew he could not afford to live to the standard expected in the KRRs on just his pay.

I think the explanation's easier: he'd done his 22.

On the 'temporary gentlemen' angle - he did note in his diary that he was not permitted to join the KRRC Officers Club (The Celer Et Audax) as he was a commissioned ranker.

[daggers]

I can offer a Methodist minister who joined the ranks of the RAMC and won an MM, was then commissioned to the infantry and won an MC before being kia.

D

[singwiththespirit]

Was commissioning from the ranks more likely to occur in the less class-conscious Australian forces than in the British?

[PhilB]

I don`t know the answer to that - I`m sure our Oz members will know - but I`d be surprised if the type of ranker was much different to the British equivalent of 1916-18.

[reformbill]

I have two family members commissioned from the ranks.

1. My uncle and godfather Paul Carter was conscripted after completing a teacher training course at St Mark and St John, Battersea. He remained in the UK with 3rd Reserve Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment,from September 1916 until September 1917. In March 1917 he applied for a commission and in the September joined the Royal Garrison Artillery as a 2nd Lt. and served in France and Belgium until the end of the war and later in Germany with the Army of Occupation.

2. A second cousin, John (Jack) Taylor Carter, a Leeds bank clerk, volunteered in October 1914 and served with the 1/8th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment . The battalion was posted to France in April 1915 . Jack was injured during the Battle of the Somme, repatriated and whilst convalescing applied for a commission.He was commissioned on 12th February 1917 in the 1/7th Battalion West Yorks, reached Belgium on 29th July, returned to the front on 8th October and died at Poellcappelle on 9th OOctober 1917.

Peter