tonyblackpool Posted 11 September , 2007 Share Posted 11 September , 2007 smiffy , SS COMMONWEALTH [THE SMALL ONE] WAS SUNK BY UC71 ON VOYAGE FROM BIZERTA TO MIDDLESBROUGH WITH A CARGO OF IRON ORE OWNED BY KENT SS CO LTD SAMUEL WALTON OF LONDON MANAGERS. 14 DEAD ONLY FOUND 13 ALI SABIT FIREMAN TRIMMER ATTWELL HAROLD AGED 36 CHIEF STEWARD BICK HENRY GEORGE AGED 15 STEWARD CAMPBELL ARCHIBALD AGED 49 AB SEAMAN COGLIN WILLIAM FRATER AGED 56 2nd MATE CRAIGG W AGED 40 SHIPS COOK DAVIS JOHN THOMAS AGED 20 AB SEAMAN FAGNANT O AGED 34 AB SEAMAN HASAN SALEH FIREMAN TRIMMER LANE C F AGED 63 CARPENTER [FINLAND] MUHAMMID AHMAD FIREMAN TRIMMER MUHAMMAD NAGI DONKEY MAN ROBLEY CLAUDE CROSSLEY AGED 18 WIRELESS OPERATOR . tony. no sign of a photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 11 September , 2007 Share Posted 11 September , 2007 Peter, my reading of the ship size figures given is: 330 feet long (bow to stern), 45 feet 1 inch wide (widest, probably mid-length), 18 feet 7 inches deep. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 11 September , 2007 Share Posted 11 September , 2007 Tony, you say you found 13 names, but you only listed 11! The 14th man was MORRIS, JOHN S., SIGNALMAN, RNVR, WALES Z 3972, COMMONWEALTH H.M. Transport (hired), 19-Feb-18, SHIP LOSS. He would have been a DAMS gunner. Best wishes David ps. if you only have 11 names I can supply the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 12 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 12 September , 2007 Thanks Tony and David, .........the photo of 'Commonwealth' seems to be impossible? A couple of thoughts:- It is thought that Thomas may have described his journey out as being on a 'converted cattle boat'? Could it have also been used in the Boer War? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 12 September , 2007 Share Posted 12 September , 2007 Thanks Tony and David, .........the photo of 'Commonwealth' seems to be impossible? A couple of thoughts:- It is thought that Thomas may have described his journey out as being on a 'converted cattle boat'? Could it have also been used in the Boer War? Peter Peter, no mention in the 'Transport Medal Roll' 1899-1902 South Africa and China. (includes Ships and Shipping Lines) Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 12 September , 2007 Share Posted 12 September , 2007 Tony, you say you found 13 names, but you only listed 11! The 14th man was MORRIS, JOHN S., SIGNALMAN, RNVR, WALES Z 3972, COMMONWEALTH H.M. Transport (hired), 19-Feb-18, SHIP LOSS. He would have been a DAMS gunner. Best wishes David ps. if you only have 11 names I can supply the other two. hi david if you read the post again you will see 13, two have gone on the same line as other crew i never noticed it when posting and no idea how it came about. regards tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 13 September , 2007 Share Posted 13 September , 2007 Tony, my apologies, I didn't spot that. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 13 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2007 Peter The "Commonwealth" (3,353 tons) was built in 1896 for the Commonwealth Steamship Company, by Furness, Withy and Co. It was torpedoed by a submarine on February 19th 1918, whilst five miles NE of Flamborough Head. 14 men were killed. Source: Dictionary of Disasters at Sea, Charles Hocking. TR A PHOTO anyone ??????????????? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 13 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 13 September , 2007 A PHOTO anyone ??????????????? Peter Cargo Ship Tonnage: 3,353 ID No. 1106805 Launch date: 25-7-96 Completion: 9-96 Flag: GBR Link: 1416 Yard No: 226 Length LPP 100.6 Beam: 13.7 No.Screws: 1T Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool Builder: Furness Withy Location of Yard: Middleton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 13 September , 2007 Share Posted 13 September , 2007 photo of ss commonwealth departing pinkenba wharf brisbane c 1915 AUS troops on board photo from picture australia site sorry smiffy not the one you are seaching for but if its out there i will find it. tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 14 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 September , 2007 photo of ss commonwealth departing pinkenba wharf brisbane c 1915 AUS troops on board photo from picture australia site sorry smiffy not the one you are seaching for but if its out there i will find it. tony Thanks Tony, All, Just to draw attention to the fact that we still haven't got a photo of the CORRECT 'Commonwealth' thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 21 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 September , 2007 Just to draw attention to the fact that we still haven't got a photo of the CORRECT 'Commonwealth' Hi all, As this thread was in danger of 'sinking'........... I thought I'd take the liberty of trying to rescue it. HELP messmates! ...... or it looks like it will be condemed to Davy Jones' Locker! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 22 September , 2007 Share Posted 22 September , 2007 hi peter,still no joy with photo but, 1/ did the ss commonwealth 3353 tons sunk 19-2-1918 carry troops ? [carrying iron ore when sunk] 2/ would it have been taken over by the RN to carry troops? 3/ how long would it have taken to sail from devonport to mesopotamia/india 3/4 weeks ? TONY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 24 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2007 hi peter,still no joy with photo but, 1/ did the ss commonwealth 3353 tons sunk 19-2-1918 carry troops ? [carrying coal when sunk] 2/ would it have been taken over by the RN to carry troops? 3/ how long would it have taken to sail from devonport to mesopotamia/india 3/4 weeks ? TONY Hi Tony, thanks for persevering! 1. Carried troops, my man Thomas Arthur Smith was on board. 2. Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth. 3. Double the time, at 8.5 knots max. that you suggest (6-8 weeks) regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 24 September , 2007 Share Posted 24 September , 2007 Peter, quote: "Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth." Just to correct a possible misunderstanding of the prefix HMT. All merchant ships that were hired by the Admiralty were designated HMT (HM Transport) irrespective of their cargo. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 25 September , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2007 Peter, quote: "Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth." Just to correct a possible misunderstanding of the prefix HMT. All merchant ships that were hired by the Admiralty were designated HMT (HM Transport) irrespective of their cargo. Best wishes David Yes David, that's how I understood it. But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult, but .............................................................................. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 5 October , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2007 But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult !! Peter Hiya shipmates, Thought I would just bump this thread up to the top so as its not totally forgotten. I'm STILL looking for a 'picture' of ss. Commonwealth, 3353 tons built 1896. Hopefully, with all your help, SOMEONE will discover a shot of this elusive vessel soon!!! Many t hanks Peter But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult !! Peter Hiya shipmates, Thought I would just bump this thread up to the top so as its not totally forgotten. I'm STILL looking for a 'picture' of ss. Commonwealth, 3353 tons built 1896. Hopefully, with all your help, SOMEONE will discover a shot of this elusive vessel soon!!! Many t hanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 25 October , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2007 Cargo Ship Tonnage: 3,353 ID No. 1106805 Launch date: 25-7-96 Completion: 9-96 Flag: GBR Link: 1416 Yard No: 226 Length LPP 100.6 Beam: 13.7 No.Screws: 1T Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool Builder: Furness Withy Location of Yard: Middleton HMT Commonwealth embarked from Devonport 22/7/1917 bound for Mesopotamia. Was this the ship above? Further searches have so far proved fruitless ....including of course, a picture. Would 'Janes Fighting Ships' shed any light? regards all, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 25 October , 2007 Share Posted 25 October , 2007 HMT Commonwealth embarked from Devonport 22/7/1917 bound for Mesopotamia. Was this the ship above? Further searches have so far proved fruitless ....including of course, a picture. Would 'Janes Fighting Ships' shed any light? regards all, Peter hi peter, i am back from holiday, i dont think it was the ship above, you have photos of hmt commonwealth , the photo you are looking for is THE SS COMMONWEALTH, 14 of the crew lost , on cwgc it states ship as. SS COMMONWEALTH . i tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 26 October , 2007 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2007 hi peter, i am back from holiday, i dont think it was the ship above, you have photos of hmt commonwealth , the photo you are looking for is THE SS COMMONWEALTH, 14 of the crew lost , on cwgc it states ship as. SS COMMONWEALTH . i tony Hello Tony, Thanks for your reply.... and I hope you had a great holiday. I am still in SW France and will be for a few more months. The experts (inlcuding of course your good self) on GWF have come up with info on 3 of the 4 ships that I am researching, namely:- ROYAL GEORGE, ERINPURA and MANORA...... which is a fantastic result. The sticking point now is just the 'COMMONWEALTH'. In answer to your last email I would just say that it was listed as HMT Commonwealth, on the Service Record that I have seen for Thomas Arthur SMITH, embarking Devonport 22/7/1917 for Mesopotamia. But take your point that any picture etc. might well be listed under SS Commonwealth. (Just to reiterate ....... I don't think it was the larger ship HMAT COMMONWEALTH). S.O.S. ................All shipmates on deck to HELP please! regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 26 October , 2007 Share Posted 26 October , 2007 In answer to your last email I would just say that it was listed as HMT Commonwealth, on the Service Record that I have seen for Thomas Arthur SMITH, embarking Devonport 22/7/1917 for Mesopotamia. But take your point that any picture etc. might well be listed under SS Commonwealth. (Just to reiterate ....... I don't think it was the larger ship HMAT COMMONWEALTH). S.O.S. ................All shipmates on deck to HELP please! regards, Peter hi peter, first i am no expert, but the service record of thomas a smith embarking on the hmt commonwealth is i think the photo you already have, the smaller of the two ships the commonwealth that sank 19-2-1918 by uc71, i dont think your man was ever on her , regards tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 14 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2007 hi peter, first i am no expert, but the service record of thomas a smith embarking on the hmt commonwealth is i think the photo you already have, the smaller of the two ships the commonwealth that sank 19-2-1918 by uc71, i dont think your man was ever on her , regards tony Hi Tony, The photograph/s posted above are NOT, I'm almost certain, of the SMALLER 'Commonwealth' Equally I am pretty sure that the 'Commonwealth' you mention (later sunk by UC71) WAS the one that he was previously on. What makes you think otherwise? Thanks for your interest, regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyblackpool Posted 14 November , 2007 Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Hi Tony, The photograph/s posted above are NOT, I'm almost certain, of the SMALLER 'Commonwealth' Equally I am pretty sure that the 'Commonwealth' you mention (later sunk by UC71) WAS the one that he was previously on. What makes you think otherwise? Thanks for your interest, regards, Peter hi peter,the photos posted are not of the SS COMMONWEALTH SUNK BY UC71 AGREED, the other two HMAT AND HMT DID CARRY TROOPS THROUGH OUT THE WAR and its because of that i think your man sailed on one of them more than likely the HMT. the SS COMMONWEALTH SUNK i can find no info other than the sinking and crew lost so its just a gut feeling i have, but i have not stopped trying to find her photo. tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted 31 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Cargo Ship Tonnage: 3,353 ID No. 1106805 Launch date: 25-7-96 Completion: 9-96 Flag: GBR Link: 1416 Yard No: 226 Length LPP 100.6 Beam: 13.7 No.Screws: 1T Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool Builder: Furness Withy Location of Yard: Middleton Hello again Pals, Could this be a painting of our 's.s. Commonwealth'? http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/prints/vi...?reproID=PU6805 thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 Hello again Pals, Could this be a painting of our 's.s. Commonwealth'? http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/prints/vi...?reproID=PU6805 thanks Peter Hello peter Fraid not, this is the 1902 6611 ton Commonwealth, owner William lund. BU 1923, see Tim's picture post 11 Dont lose heart, still looking Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now