Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

HMT 'Commonwealth' July 1917, Devonport


smiffy

Recommended Posts

smiffy , SS COMMONWEALTH [THE SMALL ONE] WAS SUNK BY UC71 ON VOYAGE FROM BIZERTA TO MIDDLESBROUGH WITH A CARGO OF IRON ORE OWNED BY KENT SS CO LTD SAMUEL WALTON OF LONDON MANAGERS. 14 DEAD

ONLY FOUND 13

ALI SABIT FIREMAN TRIMMER

ATTWELL HAROLD AGED 36 CHIEF STEWARD

BICK HENRY GEORGE AGED 15 STEWARD

CAMPBELL ARCHIBALD AGED 49 AB SEAMAN

COGLIN WILLIAM FRATER AGED 56 2nd MATE

CRAIGG W AGED 40 SHIPS COOK DAVIS JOHN THOMAS AGED 20 AB SEAMAN

FAGNANT O AGED 34 AB SEAMAN HASAN SALEH FIREMAN TRIMMER

LANE C F AGED 63 CARPENTER [FINLAND]

MUHAMMID AHMAD FIREMAN TRIMMER

MUHAMMAD NAGI DONKEY MAN

ROBLEY CLAUDE CROSSLEY AGED 18 WIRELESS OPERATOR . tony. no sign of a photo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter, my reading of the ship size figures given is:

330 feet long (bow to stern), 45 feet 1 inch wide (widest, probably mid-length), 18 feet 7 inches deep.

Best wishes

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony, you say you found 13 names, but you only listed 11!

The 14th man was MORRIS, JOHN S., SIGNALMAN, RNVR, WALES Z 3972, COMMONWEALTH H.M. Transport (hired), 19-Feb-18, SHIP LOSS.

He would have been a DAMS gunner.

Best wishes

David

ps. if you only have 11 names I can supply the other two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Tony and David,

.........the photo of 'Commonwealth' seems to be impossible?

A couple of thoughts:-

It is thought that Thomas may have described his journey out as being on a 'converted cattle boat'?

Could it have also been used in the Boer War?

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Tony and David,

.........the photo of 'Commonwealth' seems to be impossible?

A couple of thoughts:-

It is thought that Thomas may have described his journey out as being on a 'converted cattle boat'?

Could it have also been used in the Boer War?

Peter

Peter, no mention in the 'Transport Medal Roll' 1899-1902 South Africa and China. (includes Ships and Shipping Lines)

Regards John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony, you say you found 13 names, but you only listed 11!

The 14th man was MORRIS, JOHN S., SIGNALMAN, RNVR, WALES Z 3972, COMMONWEALTH H.M. Transport (hired), 19-Feb-18, SHIP LOSS.

He would have been a DAMS gunner.

Best wishes

David

ps. if you only have 11 names I can supply the other two.

hi david if you read the post again you will see 13, two have gone on the same line as other crew i never noticed it when posting and no idea how it came about. regards tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter

The "Commonwealth" (3,353 tons) was built in 1896 for the Commonwealth Steamship Company, by Furness, Withy and Co. It was torpedoed by a submarine on February 19th 1918, whilst five miles NE of Flamborough Head. 14 men were killed.

Source: Dictionary of Disasters at Sea, Charles Hocking.

TR

A PHOTO anyone ???????????????

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A PHOTO anyone ???????????????

Peter

Cargo Ship

Tonnage: 3,353

ID No. 1106805

Launch date: 25-7-96

Completion: 9-96

Flag: GBR

Link: 1416

Yard No: 226

Length LPP 100.6

Beam: 13.7

No.Screws: 1T

Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool

Builder: Furness Withy

Location of Yard: Middleton

Link to comment
Share on other sites

photo of ss commonwealth departing pinkenba wharf brisbane c 1915 AUS troops on board photo from picture australia site

sorry smiffy not the one you are seaching for but if its out there i will find it. tony

post-16856-1189700668.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

photo of ss commonwealth departing pinkenba wharf brisbane c 1915 AUS troops on board photo from picture australia site

sorry smiffy not the one you are seaching for but if its out there i will find it. tony

Thanks Tony,

All,

Just to draw attention to the fact that we still haven't got a photo of the CORRECT 'Commonwealth'

thanks

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to draw attention to the fact that we still haven't got a photo of the CORRECT 'Commonwealth'

Hi all,

As this thread was in danger of 'sinking'........... I thought I'd take the liberty of trying to rescue it.

HELP messmates! ...... or it looks like it will be condemed to Davy Jones' Locker!

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi peter,still no joy with photo but,

1/ did the ss commonwealth 3353 tons sunk 19-2-1918 carry troops ? [carrying iron ore when sunk]

2/ would it have been taken over by the RN to carry troops?

3/ how long would it have taken to sail from devonport to mesopotamia/india 3/4 weeks ?

TONY

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi peter,still no joy with photo but,

1/ did the ss commonwealth 3353 tons sunk 19-2-1918 carry troops ? [carrying coal when sunk]

2/ would it have been taken over by the RN to carry troops?

3/ how long would it have taken to sail from devonport to mesopotamia/india 3/4 weeks ?

TONY

Hi Tony, thanks for persevering!

1. Carried troops, my man Thomas Arthur Smith was on board.

2. Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth.

3. Double the time, at 8.5 knots max. that you suggest (6-8 weeks)

regards

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter,

quote: "Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth."

Just to correct a possible misunderstanding of the prefix HMT.

All merchant ships that were hired by the Admiralty were designated HMT (HM Transport) irrespective of their cargo.

Best wishes

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter,

quote: "Yes, it was referred to as HMT Commonwealth."

Just to correct a possible misunderstanding of the prefix HMT.

All merchant ships that were hired by the Admiralty were designated HMT (HM Transport) irrespective of their cargo.

Best wishes

David

Yes David, that's how I understood it.

But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult, but ..............................................................................

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult !!

Peter

Hiya shipmates,

Thought I would just bump this thread up to the top so as its not totally forgotten.

I'm STILL looking for a 'picture' of ss. Commonwealth, 3353 tons built 1896.

Hopefully, with all your help, SOMEONE will discover a shot of this elusive vessel soon!!!

Many t :blush: hanks

Peter

But trying to get a picture of THAT 'Commonwealth' is proving more than a little difficult !!

Peter

Hiya shipmates,

Thought I would just bump this thread up to the top so as its not totally forgotten.

I'm STILL looking for a 'picture' of ss. Commonwealth, 3353 tons built 1896.

Hopefully, with all your help, SOMEONE will discover a shot of this elusive vessel soon!!!

Many t :blush: hanks

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Cargo Ship

Tonnage: 3,353

ID No. 1106805

Launch date: 25-7-96

Completion: 9-96

Flag: GBR

Link: 1416

Yard No: 226

Length LPP 100.6

Beam: 13.7

No.Screws: 1T

Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool

Builder: Furness Withy

Location of Yard: Middleton

HMT Commonwealth embarked from Devonport 22/7/1917 bound for Mesopotamia.

Was this the ship above?

Further searches have so far proved fruitless ....including of course, a picture.

Would 'Janes Fighting Ships' shed any light?

regards all,

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HMT Commonwealth embarked from Devonport 22/7/1917 bound for Mesopotamia.

Was this the ship above?

Further searches have so far proved fruitless ....including of course, a picture.

Would 'Janes Fighting Ships' shed any light?

regards all,

Peter

hi peter, i am back from holiday, i dont think it was the ship above, you have photos of

hmt commonwealth , the photo you are looking for is THE SS COMMONWEALTH, 14 of the crew lost , on cwgc it states ship as. SS COMMONWEALTH . i tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi peter, i am back from holiday, i dont think it was the ship above, you have photos of

hmt commonwealth , the photo you are looking for is THE SS COMMONWEALTH, 14 of the crew lost , on cwgc it states ship as. SS COMMONWEALTH . i tony

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your reply.... and I hope you had a great holiday.

I am still in SW France and will be for a few more months.

The experts (inlcuding of course your good self) on GWF have come up with info on 3 of the 4 ships that I am researching, namely:- ROYAL GEORGE, ERINPURA and MANORA...... which is a fantastic result.

The sticking point now is just the 'COMMONWEALTH'.

In answer to your last email I would just say that it was listed as HMT Commonwealth, on the Service Record that I have seen for Thomas Arthur SMITH, embarking Devonport 22/7/1917 for Mesopotamia.

But take your point that any picture etc. might well be listed under SS Commonwealth.

(Just to reiterate ....... I don't think it was the larger ship HMAT COMMONWEALTH).

S.O.S. ................All shipmates on deck to HELP please!

regards,

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In answer to your last email I would just say that it was listed as HMT Commonwealth, on the Service Record that I have seen for Thomas Arthur SMITH, embarking Devonport 22/7/1917 for Mesopotamia.

But take your point that any picture etc. might well be listed under SS Commonwealth.

(Just to reiterate ....... I don't think it was the larger ship HMAT COMMONWEALTH).

S.O.S. ................All shipmates on deck to HELP please!

regards,

Peter

hi peter, first i am no expert, but the service record of thomas a smith embarking on the hmt commonwealth is i think the photo you already have, the smaller of the two ships

the commonwealth that sank 19-2-1918 by uc71, i dont think your man was ever on her , regards tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
hi peter, first i am no expert, but the service record of thomas a smith embarking on the hmt commonwealth is i think the photo you already have, the smaller of the two ships

the commonwealth that sank 19-2-1918 by uc71, i dont think your man was ever on her , regards tony

Hi Tony,

The photograph/s posted above are NOT, I'm almost certain, of the SMALLER 'Commonwealth'

Equally I am pretty sure that the 'Commonwealth' you mention (later sunk by UC71) WAS the one that he was previously on.

What makes you think otherwise?

Thanks for your interest,

regards,

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tony,

The photograph/s posted above are NOT, I'm almost certain, of the SMALLER 'Commonwealth'

Equally I am pretty sure that the 'Commonwealth' you mention (later sunk by UC71) WAS the one that he was previously on.

What makes you think otherwise?

Thanks for your interest,

regards,

Peter

hi peter,the photos posted are not of the SS COMMONWEALTH SUNK BY UC71 AGREED,

the other two HMAT AND HMT DID CARRY TROOPS THROUGH OUT THE WAR

and its because of that i think your man sailed on one of them more than likely the HMT.

the SS COMMONWEALTH SUNK i can find no info other than the sinking and crew lost so its just a gut feeling i have, but i have not stopped trying to find her photo. tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
Cargo Ship

Tonnage: 3,353

ID No. 1106805

Launch date: 25-7-96

Completion: 9-96

Flag: GBR

Link: 1416

Yard No: 226

Length LPP 100.6

Beam: 13.7

No.Screws: 1T

Owner as completed: Stewart S.S.Co.Ltd., Liverpool

Builder: Furness Withy

Location of Yard: Middleton

Hello again Pals,

Could this be a painting of our 's.s. Commonwealth'?

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/prints/vi...?reproID=PU6805

thanks

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...