Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 I came across a British WW1 Officer's file yesterday and wondered whether the info in it may be of interest to anybody on the forum - racial discrimination at the time of WW1. (I didnt actually have an interest in the man per se - I was just pulling files of men named on a group photo in order to try to determine a date & location - I havent actually seen the photo and hadnt realised that he was Black, - or he could be mixed race or possibly even of Indian decent; as I said I havent seen the photo). WO339/62717, Collins R. The file has been pretty heavily "weeded" but the gist is there - his name was Reginald Emanuel Collins and he was a Civil Servant in the West Indies. Came over to Britain at his own expense and enlisted as a Pte in the Royal Fusiliers during August 1915. Exactly what happened next is not clear, but he applied for commission and was sent to No 6 Officer Cadet Battalion early in 1916. The copy of his notification to join the Bn is covered in scribbles which show that there was great reticence to progress him, culminating with a note by OC 6th Bn which says "This man is not suitable to be an officer owing to his colour." (Surely someone had noticed that before he was sent to the Bn ?!). There are then notes which indicate a suggestion to discharge him from the Army and return him to the W.Indies, one note asking if, as a concession, he may be given 2nd class passage, but this is rejected and a note indicates that he should go 3rd class. OC 6th Bn wants him returned to unit rather than discharged. Short notes on the file covers and correspondence summary sheets indicate that there had been a suggestion that he could be commissioned to the British West Indies Regiment, but they culminate with a note "Officers of BWI Regt are white !" (the exclamation is on the original note). There is then a gap in continuity till 30/3/17 when he is commissioned 2nd Lieut in the 6th Bn BWI, with whom he stays till discharge 25/4/19 with rank of Liutenant. Nothing detrimental is noted against him. Probably a stupid question, but is anybody aware of any "official" regulations / guidance etc with regards to the racial origins of "acceptable" candidates for commission at that time ? Regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 An interesting find. I am completely unaware of the "official" regulations but a few months ago the BBC were running a black sportsmen in history programme. I am sure this identified a black officer in the RFC (if not this programme then I am sure I came across it somewhere recently). Does this ring any bells with anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 On the outbreak of war, under the terms of the Army Act, "men of colour" (as they were then described) were not permitted to become commissioned officers. However, two are known of in WW1; one with a Canadian battalion, and the other in the Middlesex Regt, which is the man you are describing, Walter Tull. See his details on the CWGC website at: http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=778015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 .... two are known of in WW1; one with a Canadian battalion, and the other in the Middlesex Regt There is also supposed to have been at least one other black officer in the BWI. Named Cipriani, and "of light complexion". Became involved in Labour/TU actions back in the West Indies after WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 On the outbreak of war, under the terms of the Army Act, "men of colour" (as they were then described) were not permitted to become commissioned officers. Can anyone quote the exact wording in the Act? Also, see previous thread Black Soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 I have the exact wording somewhere - will have a look and post tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 ... the other in the Middlesex Regt, which is the man you are describing, Walter Tull. Thanks Paul. I wonder if I have confused two stories ... was there such a thing as a Sergeant-Pilot in WW1 and in yr studies of coloured soldiers have you come across such a man who may have survived the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 3 January , 2004 Share Posted 3 January , 2004 ... was there such a thing as a Sergeant-Pilot in WW1 and in yr studies of coloured soldiers have you come across such a man who may have survived the war? Are you sure that it was WW1? There was an Australian Aborigine pilot in WW2, who fought in the Pacific and named his fighter plane "Black Magic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 1. I suppose we should be a bit careful about how we define our terms. The original post was about "black" officers, which is not necessarily the same as "non-white". 2. In this latter category we might place Lt. Cameron Brant of the 4th Bn Canadian Infantry (KIA at Ypres, 1915), whose family was famous in the British service in a previous war. 3. I , too, would like to see if there was particular mention of race in the Army Regulations. My impression is that officers on the spot had a lot of discretion about these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hussar Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 Does this ring any bells with anyone? Signals, Yes, I too have a vague recollection of this, and it's bugging me like mad now!! As regards the men of colour being commissioned, it obviously didn't apply to Indians as I have come across a couple in the RFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 As regards the men of colour being commissioned, it obviously didn't apply to Indians as I have come across a couple in the RFC. This, I think, is the first mention of Indians, ie people from India, on either of these two threads. While I realise that there were Indian Army regiments, raised in India, and full of Indians, there must have been Indians living in Britain, after all, Britain had ruled India for a long time prior to WW1. What did they do - enlist in Britain, or possibly try to and get turned down, - go home to India and enlist there - not enlist at all.? of my 3 1/2 Indians from Fiji ( the half classified himself as 1/2 Indian, 1/2 European). one joined the NZEF, one served as a translator at Basra, the half joined the Fiji 3rd contingent, and the other, C Campbell (who was probably also half) joined the Royal Garrison Artillery C Campbell (Kamala) Royal Garrison Artillery Indian from Suva Ex Pacific Cable Board If anyone could find out anything about him, I would appreciate it. Christine (hiding inside from the 5th day of beautiful fine weather) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 Does this ring any bells with anyone? Signals, Yes, I too have a vague recollection of this, and it's bugging me like mad now!! As regards the men of colour being commissioned, it obviously didn't apply to Indians as I have come across a couple in the RFC. Thanks Hussar ... I am sure I am not going mad. Unfortunately I read so much and without the benefit of sa photographic memory I remember so little ... Beppo - I am sure this was a WW1 related article. I think there were at least a handful of coloured pilots in WW2 (if my memory serves me correctly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 I wonder if I have confused two stories ... was there such a thing as a Sergeant-Pilot in WW1 and in yr studies of coloured soldiers have you come across such a man who may have survived the war? You are thinking of Sgt W.R.Clarke, RFC, who flew with the RFC and RAF from 1915-1918. He featured in an article on Black Soldiers in the British Army in WW1 I wrote for Stand To! some years ago. There is a photo of him below. This article was an extract from my MA thesis; in that I defined 'Black' as Afro-Caribbean - attitudes to the Indian Army, and some other colonies, were different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 I was mistaken, it wasn't the Army Act, but the Manual of Military Law (War Office 1914): "...any negro or person of colour [is an]... alien. Any person who is for the time being an alien may... be enlisted in His Majesty's regular forces, so, however, that the number of aliens serving together at any one time in any corps of the regular forces shall not exceed the proportions of one alien to every fifty British subjects." (p.471) Furthmore once enlisted a man of colour could "... not be capable of holding any higher rank in His Majesty's regular forces than that of warrant officer or non-commission officer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 3. I , too, would like to see if there was particular mention of race in the Army Regulations. My impression is that officers on the spot had a lot of discretion about these things. Quite true in Canada - my thesis also looked at Black enlistments into the CEF. Those in charge of enlistment had "... complete discretion over whom to accept" and it was noted "... selection is entirely in the hands of commanding officers and their selections or rejections are not to be intereferred with from headquarters". Both quotes from Walker, James W. Race and Recruitment in World War I: Enlistment of Visible Minorities in the Canadian Expeditionary Force Unpublished Paper, University of Waterloo, Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 4 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2004 1. I suppose we should be a bit careful about how we define our terms. The original post was about "black" officers, which is not necessarily the same as "non-white". In the original posting I deliberately used the word "Black", in inverted comas, as a generic expression / description of the man to whom the posting referred. As I said in that posting, I have not seen his photograph and have no idea exactly what "colour" he might have been. Having said that, the issue of his precise racial origin is irrelevant. The man volunteered to serve in the British Army during wartime, which is sufficient cause to be interested in him and the overall circumstances of his "case". What I am interested in is the mechanism by which the Army initially discriminated against him, and what further (modified ?) mechanism led to his having been commissioned. It's a technical issue and was not intended to be the subject of some sort of PC debate, so lets not go there. BTW - To clarify things on a personal level - my taxonomic grouping is "blue". As you may have heard Mr Connolly explain, all Scotsmen are born blue (because its so d***** cold up there !), and only turn a pasty-white after the midwife holds them up to the sun for a while. regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 Having said that, the issue of his precise racial origin is irrelevant. The man volunteered to serve in the British Army during wartime, which is sufficient cause to be interested in him and the overall circumstances of his "case". That's not strictly true, as the War Office at the time did indeed differentiate between different types of 'Black' people. While we might not agree now, or wish to debate it, we must understand how those viewed it then, otherwise the whole excerise becomes meaningless. Having worked closely with a number of UK Black historians (a term they use to describe themselves, BTW), their definition of 'Black History' relates to those of Afro-Caribbean descent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 You are thinking of Sgt W.R.Clarke, RFC, who flew with the RFC and RAF from 1915-1918. He featured in an article on Black Soldiers in the British Army in WW1 I wrote for Stand To! some years ago. There is a photo of him below. Thanks Paul I guess I should have dug out the STAND TO first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 I was mistaken, it wasn't the Army Act, but the Manual of Military Law (War Office 1914): "...any negro or person of colour [is an]... alien. Any person who is for the time being an alien may... be enlisted in His Majesty's regular forces, so, however, that the number of aliens serving together at any one time in any corps of the regular forces shall not exceed the proportions of one alien to every fifty British subjects." (p.471) Furthmore once enlisted a man of colour could "... not be capable of holding any higher rank in His Majesty's regular forces than that of warrant officer or non-commission officer." So how did the British army, or somebody, justify turning down Ratu Sukuna in 1914? He was in Oxford, studying for a law degree, wanted to join up but was refused. Because he was a coloured "colonial" as opposed to someone from Britain proper? If anyone could find documentation on his case, it should be interesting. His full name was Ratu Josefa/Joseva Lalabalavu Vana'ali'ali Sukuna, and this could quite possibly be filed under any of those names. Ratu is a title. Sergeant Ratu Joseva Lalabalavu V Sukuna Ratu Sir Josefa Lalabalavu Vana'ali'ali Sukuna, born 22nd April 1888 in Bau educated Wanganui College, NZ French Foreign Legion qv returned to Fiji 1916 Lieutenant in Fiji Defence Force received disbursement from Fiji Day fund Fijian chief , brother of Ratu Vuiyasawa NZEF civil servant returned to Fiji 1919 m.1) Adi Maraia Vosawale 2) Maca Likutabua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 4 January , 2004 Share Posted 4 January , 2004 I suspect because they termed him a 'man of colour' ; his resentment, as you note, resulted in him leaving to join the French Foreign Legion. I came across him in my MA research and have something on him somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 there must have been Indians living in Britain, after all, Britain had ruled India for a long time prior to WW1. What did they do - enlist in Britain, or possibly try to and get turned down, - go home to India and enlist there - not enlist at all.? Since nobody has picked up on this. I'll do it myself. On FreeBMD there is 1 boy Singh and 2 boy Khans born in Britain between 1880 and 1900. What would have happened with them assuming they were still in Britain when war was declared? Presumably there could have been "Indians" with other names I'm including Pakistanis as they were part of the Indian Empire. Does anyone know of any Indians in the BEF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 Christine, I am not sure if this is of any use to you but I have been led to believe there was a thriving Indian community in London at the turn of the 20th century. Nothing like the type of immigration later known but more than just the occasional isolated family. My memory says they congregated in the East End but this might be because that was the first place most immigrants headed for at that time. There might be something on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hussar Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 There was, obviously, an attitude adjustment as the war progressed. Hardutt Singh Malik was the first Indian to fly with the British Royal Flying Corps (RFC) during WW1. He was studying at Oxford when war broke out. On completion of his studies he applied to the RFC but was refused a commission. He, therefore, offered his services to the French Airforce and was accepted. One of his Oxford Tutors contacted the Head of the RFC about his case and he was subsequently accepted for training by the RFC in early 1917, being commissioned into 26 Squadron towards the end of June 1917. whereas, Indra Lal Roy was attending St. Paul's School in Kensington in August 1914, then aged just 15. In April 1917 Roy enlisted with the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) and was given a commission as 2nd Lieutenant on 5 July 1917. ( info from http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/airwar.htm ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 I have just remembered that one of the last pictures taken of WG Grace just before he died in 1915 included the great Ranji in officer's khaki. I dont have a book/copy of the photo at hand but I would guess from memory he was at least a Lt-Col. Can anyone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 Along with the venerable doctor, Ranji, the pioneer of the leg glance, was certainly involved in various recruitment campaigns during the Great War, calling upon young cricketers to 'sacrifice their wickets for the cause'. He would have been in his 40s at the time. I have never seen the picture, to which you allude (If anyone has a copy, I would really like to see it). It's always possible that it was merely an honorary rank to recognise the fact that he was the prince of a state in India (Nawangar, I think) and a keen supporter of the British Empire. In view of his position, I would not imagine that he saw any active service, especially as he had recently lost an eye in a shooting accident. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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