calvin Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 hello all, can anyone explain to me why pte. f. w. robbins 15176 would be r.m.l.i. and hms canada, it says 4years 4months service, also p.o.w. 9/10/1914---- 16/12/1918 mons star and 1914 star would be attached to r.m.l.i. and hms canada, thanks all, regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Hello John, There were three ships named CANADA serving in early 1914: CANADA H.M. Battleship, CANADA H.M.C. Armed patrol and CANADA H.M. Miscellaneous patrol. As you can see one belonged to the Canadian navy. The battleship was definitely RN, and the third may have been provided by Canada as part of the Miscellaneous patrol service that was set up around the world by the Admiralty. The linkage between the RMLI and an RN ship existed because the RMLI provided manpower for the security of the vessel. Some of this manpower, on a large ship, would also man one or more gun turrets, whilst on a smaller vessel they would be responsible for the defensive armaments. On merchant ships that were defensively armed they were called D.A.M.S gunners. Hope this helps David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 21 July , 2007 Share Posted 21 July , 2007 Pte FW Robbins RMLI (Portsmouth/15176) was captured by the Germans during the Royal Naval Division's defence of Antwerp in October 1914 and spent the war as a p.o.w. It should be remembered that the RMLI and RMA were part of the Royal Navy and served the majority of their time in ships, as described by David. The huge numbers deployed in Belgium, France and Gallipoli during WW1 were the exceptions to this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 21 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2007 hello david and horatio2, thankyou both for that information, if he was on the canada could he have been sent ashore as part of the defense of antwerp or would he been sent to the royal navy division first, then to antwerp, would the canada have carried a marine commando unit like they do today and sent as a unit. thankyou both regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 21 July , 2007 Share Posted 21 July , 2007 He would have been drafted to Portsmouth Battalion of the 3rd (RM) Brigade of the RND, probably in August 1914. Therefore, his service in HMS CANADA was at a different time. With that register number I would guess he enlisted, for an initial 12-year term, in about 1905, so he had about nine years service before the war. There was no such thing as a RM Commando unit until WW2. The RMLI and RMA men in a warship were part of the normal ship's company and complement. However, naval landing forces since time immemorial had comprised both RM and RN personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 21 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2007 hello horatio, thankyou for that info, it clears it up nicely, kind regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 21 July , 2007 Share Posted 21 July , 2007 According to Feyyer & Wilson's roll: 1914 Star and clasp issued 15 July 1921 and 12 Aug 1920 (clasp sent before the medal); the medal was sent to him rather than to a ship. He is on the POW list printed in the Times 21 Dec 1914. His service register at Kew will confirm which ships he served on, it was most likely HMS Canada, the battleship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 22 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2007 thankyou for that, is the times copy of p.o.w.,s on line, thanks again, regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 22 July , 2007 Share Posted 22 July , 2007 I haven't investigated the Times online Archives, the list is printed in the end of Feyyer & Wilson's 1914 Star roll. You could try the POW section of the forum or main site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 23 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2007 hello, thanks for that, can you tell what feyyer and wilson,s is and how to obtain the book or books if that is what it is? thanks, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morcombe Posted 23 July , 2007 Share Posted 23 July , 2007 According to Feyyer & Wilson's roll: 1914 Star and clasp issued 15 July 1921 and 12 Aug 1920 (clasp sent before the medal); the medal was sent to him rather than to a ship. He is on the POW list printed in the Times 21 Dec 1914. His service register at Kew will confirm which ships he served on, it was most likely HMS Canada, the battleship. Clasp before star? Sounds like an error to me. Fevyer's roll is a bit off in places. Check ADM/171/170 to be sure, or the original 1914 star Roll at Kew. His ADM/159 may also give the date of issue. Canada was built for the Chilean Navy as "Admilrante Cochrane" & requisitioned-renamed HMS Canada in 1914. I doubt he could have served aboard in 1914. Probably in 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 23 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2007 hello john, thankyou for that info. what is feyyer and wilsons roll and how do i get to read it, is it a book, excuse the ignorance but i am just trying to learn, regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 28 July , 2007 Share Posted 28 July , 2007 Sorry for not picking up your query before John. He served on Canada 1919-1920, so I'm guessing that is His Majesty's Ship Canada, I haven't heard of the designation HM Battleship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 28 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2007 thanks for that, its appriciated, kind regards, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 29 July , 2007 Share Posted 29 July , 2007 per etc, it seems you learn something everyday. Would have preferred me to simply state HMS Canada, leaving John to check just what type of ship HMS was? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 29 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2007 thankyou all, so it would appear he was on the battleship hms canada after the war when it was refitting for possible sale to the chilean navy, thanks again, regards, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 29 July , 2007 Share Posted 29 July , 2007 H.M. Battleship CANADA was sold to Chile in May 1920 and was renamed ALMIRANTE LATORRE. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morcombe Posted 30 July , 2007 Share Posted 30 July , 2007 Fevyer & Wilson's 14 star roll is a book format transcript of the original roll at Kew. It has quite a few mistakes in it. They have a copy at Kew in their library, but I should check the ADM/159 first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 30 July , 2007 Share Posted 30 July , 2007 Let me have yr email address and I'll send copy of Times POWs list Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 30 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2007 hello dom, thanks for that offer, my e-mail address is d.grayson400@ntlworld.com thanks again, regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 I have found errors in several of Fevyer & Wilson’s rolls, which is why I pointed out that they stated that the clasp was issued before the medal. My comment about Robbins’ service on the battleship HMS Canada was based on the entry in ADM 159/187. According to the service shown on the service register entry he served at Ostend, Dunkirk and Antwerp, but Fevyer & Wilson’s roll only has Antwerp. ADM 171/139 and ADM 171/195 should give a clearer picture on the issue of his Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 (edited) HMS Canada's logs go up to August 1920, so maybe the crew got to deliver her to Chile on a good will visit. Below is the relevent section from Robbins' register of service. Edited 1 August , 2007 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 1 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2007 thankyou for those, the second image, is it an idividuals log or the divisions and canada,s , also the v.g. which i guess means very good relates to what, thanks for your help, regards, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 Both of the images are from ADM 159/187, Robbins' RM service register. Very Good for character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted 2 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2007 thankyou for that, i appriciate the help, regards, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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