Gilbert Walter Lyttelton Talbot

[stiletto_33853]

But as the hours passed, the true gravity of the situation became more apparent, as an ominous sinking of the bows became more and more obvious. The lights of the great ship became extinguished, the engines slipped rattling and roaring through the length of the ship, and in this horror of darkness and panic there took place those heart rending scenes of terror, heroism, and seperation, of which we have such vivid accounts. Finally, the ship rearing up into the air, the Band changing from its light airs to the tune of "Nearer, my God, to Thee," and with the Captain standing at his post to the end, and as his last message shouting through the megaphone to the crowds below the simple but surely immortal message "Be British" - this miracle of science and seamanship and invention and of luxury, carrying with it 1,500 lives, sank for ever from the sight of man.

Now as I have said, this disaster seems to me to have considerable practical significance. I have already mentioned the scale of luxury on which it was constructed, and I wish to refer to that again in a moment, but before doing so I should like to say that in my opinion the union of sorrow which has drawn England and America together, and the sympathy which has been extended to us by other great European nations, seem to me not merely formal expressions which have nothing behind them, but genuine signs of the attempt which is being made in every country to make a practical move towards the idea of universal peace.

[stiletto_33853]

There is no doctrine which is to me more damnable than that international politics are governed entirely by force, and that the morals and ideals of the nations can, when it comes to practical politics, be put out to count. That is what is called "Real Politik"; a great deal too much of it is heard in Germany at present, as for instance much which Genreal Bernhardi has just published of it is is a doctrine which, if true, is a doctrine of despair. I believe that the more the voice of the democracy in each country can be aloowed to make itself felt with regard to international relations, the less we shall be at the mercy of financiers and diplomats, and the more of it will be found the desire of every nation is towards peaceful and unprovocative expansion. If the disaster of the"Titanic" can be used to stimulate this tendency, we can really say that good has come out of evil.

[marina]

That is what is called "Real Politik"; a great deal too much of it is heard in Germany at present, as for instance much which Genreal Bernhardi has just published of it is is a doctrine which, if true, is a doctrine of despair...

... If the disaster of the"Titanic" can be used to stimulate this tendency, we can really say that good has come out of evil.

A painful read in the light of what lies ahead.

The 'Lusitania' also comes to mind.

Marina

[stiletto_33853]

Secondly, it would be foolish in discussing this disaster not to notice the extraordinary heroism which was after all displayed by practically everybody on board. I would only say that the conduct of these English men and English women under such appalling circumstances is a fact at any rate worthy of consideration by those who declare that we are a decadent and moribund race.

But, as I have said, by far the most significant aspect of this event seems to me the inordinate luxury which was so elaborately constructed and so instantly destroyed. It is always difficult, and usually priggish and wearisome, to have to decide whether such and such a thing is to luxurious or not. To raise such questions continually makes life intolerable: but it is safe to say that the paying of £800 for a single suite for a five days voyage is, without any qualification whatever, utterly indefensible and morally wrong. No really healthy individual would spend such a sum of money: that there are individuals who do it is not a symptom of a healthy state. We have all heard it said in this Club, times without number, that the greatest social reform which the Tory Party can give to the nation is a decrease of luxury and a more intimate knowledge of the interests of the working classes. That has now become a platitude. The sinking of the "Titanic" has enormously added to its force. Of course I do not mean that the very great luxury is not at times justifiable by any man. What is absolutely intolerable is that this luxury should become a habit and a necessity.........

[stiletto_33853]

On Love. To a Friend.

.......It's always been a tremendously strong instinct with me to be afraid of the whole subject of love and to avoid ever playing with it. I should feel absolutely as if I was playing with dynamite. And then, too, I've always had another instinct which is still harder to express, but I mean a sort of idealizing of love and terror of raising up cheap imitations, which would spoil the ideal. All this I say is a matter of instinct, not of thought or opinion. Frankly, the view of your actress friend seems to me intolerable. To have a series of psuedo-love affairs like that sounds too dreadful. And although one may not be in earnest oneself, very possibly the other person is, and then it's such desperate bad luck on him or her. It's all very well to talk about being a butterfly, or on the other hand for a man to be always making up to girls, but surely there's a very cruel element in it. And if a man or woman's life is nothing but a series of love affairs, will he or she be able to know when something different from the others comes along, and won't love be for them a thing they have made hackneyed or common by much use ?

I don't think it necessarily follows that anybody who feels like that takes one's life seriously or has not got any amount of "joie de vivre." At least I don't believe that I really take life very seriously - do I ?

[stiletto_33853]

To a Friend

Farnham

July 28, 1912.

Nevillearrived here yesterday for the weekend. I have been reading with immense interest an essay he has written, called "The modern situation," which is to form one of a book of seven theological essays by himself and some other young men, and is to be published shortly. His line of arguement is that the change in modern thought from Mid-Victorian thought is that whereas fifty years ago there were certain assumptions about religion, morality, etc., which everybody, of whatever opinion, took for granted and nobody disputed - now, nothing was taken for granted, and there was no principle, however apparently obvious, which some of the moderns did not question. The result was for far greater confusion and controversy and a greater groping in the dark, with an almost passionate and panic-stricken search for the truth. which makes some of Wells' and Galsworthy's writings, for instance, so wistful and poignant. On the other hand, because men feel their foundations much less secure, because the unrest in thought and convention is so great, the opportunity for Christianity is greater than ever before - because the religion of Christ appeals primarily to those who feel the danger and perplexity more than those who feel complacent and safe.

[stiletto_33853]

I'm sure the essay would interest you because it's quite admiralby written. I feel the truth of it very much. The one thing the moderns will not tolerate at any price is a formula which they are expected to take for granted. And they are so right. It is foolish to expect human nature to obey a system of morality and convention for its own sake. What a person does is always eventually determined by their personal relations. The conventions and the system are necessary for the good of societ, but nobody will ever keep to them for that reason - especially in any moment of crisis. Therefore the appeal of religion and Christianity must necessarily be personal. Christ does not ask that what He lays down as Christian morality should be kept chiefly because it is good in itself - though undoubtedly He does say that too - but primarily because His appeal is to personal attachment and love, which is what will really direct the life of a man or a woman. And that is what I believe will be the next development of the moderns. There is a chaos at present - and what they search for is something personal.

[stiletto_33853]

The following extracts are from a paper which Gilbert read, as Secretary, at the Canning Club in February 1912 when he was twenty. It is customary for the Secretary to read a paper bearing on the events and impressions of various sorts during the vacation at the opening of each term, and I think, in spite of the considerable trouble involved in preparation for them, that it was a pleasure to Gilbert to deliver these papers - a sort of "letting off steam" in a year full of vivid public interests.

He saw a good deal of some of the German undergraduates of his time, and in particular of a Mr. Halm, who enlisted his help and enthusiasm in forming an Anglo-German Society - of which he said in the early part of 1915 that "the discussions which resulted were genuine, interesting, and - in view of after events - I think tragic." I remember Gilbert's dwelling on the interest and pleasure of this intercourse, and when the war broke out he wrote that "it is natural for any man, who cares for the truth, to try and make up his mind what are really the rights and wrongs of this great quarrel."

Soe will, I think, like to see how the "German problem" was thought about by young fellows at Oxford two or three years before this appalling war of Christendom, and I add a short bit on China and her marvelous development and advance, and some thoughts in regard to her position in the future.

[marina]

To a Friend

Farnham

July 28, 1912.

. His line of arguement is that the change in modern thought from Mid-Victorian thought is that whereas fifty years ago there were certain assumptions about religion, morality, etc., which everybody, of whatever opinion, took for granted and nobody disputed - now, nothing was taken for granted, and there was no principle, however apparently obvious, which some of the moderns did not question. The result was for far greater confusion and controversy and a greater groping in the dark, with an almost passionate and panic-stricken search for the truth.

Nothing much changes, does it?

Marina

[shaunhullis]

Andy-

Many, many, thanks for your hard work on this, which I've only spotted today. My heart leapt to see this gold-mine of information on Talbot, one of 'our' boys. Typically, we don't have a copy of this memorial book in our archives here at Winchester.

Thank you, too, for visiting his grave.

I attach a small copy of a 1914 photgraph of Talbot with Prime Minister Balfour, now in the National Portrait Gallery (NPG x186).

We lost four at Hooge that day: Talbot; 2nd Lieutenant Gerald Francis Carter (7KRRC); Captain William Mackworth Parker (8RB); and Lieutenant Roger Wentworth Watson (8KRRC).

Yours,

Shaun

[stiletto_33853]

Hi Shaun,

Good to hear from you again on Talbot. Re William Mackworth Parker, he was the 1st Adjutant of the 8th RB, if you would like anything from his Officers Papers let me know. I have sent you a message re Talbot.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Extract from address at the opening meeting of the Canning Club for the Lent Term of 1912.

......I turn now to the important and ominous situation which exists between the great Powers of Europe, and with which this country is definetely concerned. It is impossible for anybody who soberly considers the present relations between England and Germany, who is genuinely anxious for peace, and who is not swayed by mere alarmist feelings, to feel other than an intense anxiety. We are assured by Englishmen who know Germany that the feelings of a certain section at any rate of the German nation are more sinister and less conducive to peace than was the case, say, a year ago. It cannot be said that the Agadir incident and the Morocco negotiations have improved the relations between the countries. It must be acknowledged quite plainly that the German view of that episode and the English view are in total disagreement, as was shown by that most interesting debate which took place in this club last term, and which was attended by several very able speakers from among the German members of the University.

[stiletto_33853]

To preserve the peace of Europe has ever been the policy of this country; and never was it more imperatively necessary than at the moment. It is nonsensical to think that a quarrel between France and Germany is other than an European crisis which must affect every other Power.........

The negotiations between the three countries, after passing through a period of the acutest anxiety, reached happily enough a peaceful solution; and the quarrel is at an end. But for anyone who reviews the facts in his mind to imagine that the result of the whole affair would be anything but a setback to the friendly relations of the two coutries is an impossibilty. The German scheme failed; they attempted, in our view, an unjustifiable policy of force majeure; it was England's duty, with as little provocation as possible, to see that no untoward results followed on such an attempt. The result in the German mind cannot be anything but a feeling of annoyance and disappointment. We have sufficient proof that this is the case. Any member of this Club had only to do as I did, and ask the opinion of one of our German friends on Sir Edward Grey's speech directly after it was delivered, to discover real this feeling of embitterment and disappointment is.

[stiletto_33853]

But since the negotiations have come to a successful conclusion, it is now the duty of everyone that realizes what a colossal calamity war between England and Germany would be to make every effort to get the Morocco affair forgotten, and to develop a feeling of friendliness between the two peoples. In passing, I would, as far as I am personally concerned, wish to protest with all the force in my power against the view which is heard quite commonly expressed, that war between England and Germany is inevitable. That is a bit of despair and pessimism which I do not believe should be tolerated for a moment. The result in loss of life and the complete disorganization of the commerce of the two countries and the consequent misery and distress that would be caused, should make it intolerable for was to be called inevitable. And it should be pointed out that every time that statement appears in print it is a step back in the cause of peace and a provocation in the interests of war. Mr. Bonar Law will never say a truer or wiser thing than that, if war did take place, it would not be because it was inevitable, but because of human folly.

[marina]

That gives me the shivers to read! How prescient!

[stiletto_33853]

Certainly very poignant with what is to come.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

But, for all that, considering both the Morocco negotiations and the general situation, there is cause for the deepest anxiety. Germany is beyond all doubt profoundly dissatisfied with her position in the world, commercially and territorially. She feels, as we have been told so very often, that she is a great nation, progressive and expanding, which must have an outlet for her commerce and population, and have ample opportunities for developing her genius. They are confronted with England, possessing the richest colonies in the world, and with an established position on the commercial trade routes. I don't think that any member of the Club feels any doubt that, if it is reasonably possible, German expansion should be allowed to proceed as far as may be. It is no use to hinder growth of nations. Such attempts are retrograde and provocative. But the supreme difficulty is that, although the subject has been universally and carefully discussed, it is impossible to understand what the practical demands of Germany are. They are not for our colonies. Most reasonable Germans realize that for the German people (who are not a good colonizing race) to attempt to govern any of our great self-governing dominions, is a piece of the most grotesque and impossible folly.

[stiletto_33853]

On the lines of commercial expansion the problem is harder. England has not the smallest desire to prevent the expansion of German commerce. On the contrary, such expansion could only benefit ourselves. But it is impossible to allow Germany to proceed at our expense; and when such expansion is at the expense of England, it is impossible for English statesmen to consent to do it. As a matter of fact, I do not believe that this clash will often take place; and I am perfectly certain that it does not account for the present state of feeling between the two countries. No commercial squabbles would account for this far reaching antagonism, although they may have something to do with it. And in my opinion the situation is most correctly described as I heard it the other day in conversation: taht Germany see's England's face everywhere, and wishes to smack it

[marina]

She feels, as we have been told so very often, that she is a great nation, progressive and expanding, which must have an outlet for her commerce and population, and have ample opportunities for developing her genius. .... I don't think that any member of the Club feels any doubt that, if it is reasonably possible, German expansion should be allowed to proceed as far as may be.

Shadows of lebensraum fall ahead of him...

Marina

[dah]

Question

In contrast to most of the other graves in Sanctuary Wood cemetery, Gibert Talbot's grave seems conspicuously 'on its own'.

Is this merely a function of his having been an original burial in Plot 1, before the postwar concentration that produced the larger and more regimented cemetery we see today......or, as the (wonderful) above tribute to his life reproduced by Andy suggests, was he considered sufficiently special to merit an individual plot?

David

[stiletto_33853]

Their practical demands have never seen the light of day. Much thought and ingenuity fails to produce them. But it is clear that a general irritation and resentment is caused in the German breast by the continual prominence of Emgland's power and prosperity.

To deal with such a state of feeling requires the greatest patience and care. There is no solution except a constant watch being kept by all who have the interests of progress at heart in both countries that no provocative action is taken, and no agressive policy is resorted to. This must be accompanied by steady education of public opinion that on the one hand England's prosperity and greatness is not a hindrance to German expansion and German nationhood, and on the other that Germany's wish to realize her fullest capacities and her highest aims contains no peril for any part of the British Empire.

[marina]

How it should have been.

I've often wondered just how soon - or do I mean early? - people began to feel the shadow of war moving oowards them.

[stiletto_33853]

In any country there are, however, a number of persons whose attitude provides a real obstacle to a growing understanding. The existence of this party in Germany is proved by the fact that there is a definite demand for an extravagent, disproportionate, and secretly- and swiftly- built navy. The command of the sea is not necessary for German expansion: it is not necessary for German colonization. And this attempt to race Great Britain as a naval power shows (what competent observers in Germany have aready informed us is the case) that there is a section of the German people whose object is aggression pure and simple, who desire to supersede England in command of the seas, and who in their hearts quite frankly would rejoice in the destruction of this country.

[stiletto_33853]

To prevent this section gaining the upper hand must be the continued and vigorous effort of all patriotic Germans. In England, on the other hand, there are, I believe, a mere handful of people who actually wish for war with Germany, or for an aggressive policy. But there is a section of opinion which is almost as great a danger. I mean those who take the view that war is inevitable, and who stimulate this opinion by a kind of flag-wagging jingoism which contains much sickening bravado and little or no genuine patriotism or constructive statesmanship.. These opinions are sometimes given expression in the songs which are heard in our pantomimes or music hall entertainments. In fact there is a song at this moment being given in the Drury Lane Pantomime which has received a suitable castigation from the able and unprejudiced Editor of "Punch." These songs can be most dangerous in stimulating public opinion in the wrong direction, and in giving needless offence to foreigners who happen to be in our midst.

[stiletto_33853]

I would submit that it is the imperative duty of all true Tories to do everything in their power to defeat this kind of opinion, and to persuade the people of this country that a friendly understanding with Germany, though difficult of realization, is a practicable and desirable policy............

I wish now to refer to another of the events of the Vacation, very briefly, and in connection with the remarks which I have just been making. I mean the extraordinary convulsion which has taken place in China.