eric e Posted 20 May , 2007 Share Posted 20 May , 2007 I don't know if this photo is Great War or not, but I think the sailor on the left could be my GGUncle Richard Whiteman, who served during the war and survived the sinking of the Cressy. Are the sailors having a party or selling items at some sort of bazaar? There also seem to be quite a few photo's on display, family I suppose. I would be grateful for any comments that would help me form a better understanding of the picture. Thanks, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 20 May , 2007 Share Posted 20 May , 2007 Bottom left look like a cake and pudding or plum duff, could be Christmas? Photos for absent loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 May , 2007 Share Posted 20 May , 2007 Very tricky - has a sort of bazaar look about it but each sailor apears to have a bottle (beer?) by him. There is also at least one bottle amongst the photos and what looks like a blancmange or jelly. The expressions on their face don't look very jolly which is not what one would expect at Christmas. The table appears to have some sort of flag over it (as well as the white ensign in the background) - again not suggestive of a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 20 May , 2007 Share Posted 20 May , 2007 I suspect they have been invited out for tea, the photo could be inverted but the Ensign is the wrong way round, Doh no it isn't, Good Conduct Badges on the correct arm. Possibly after the sinking of the Cressey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 21 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2007 Charles, Centurion and per ardua per mare per terram, Many thanks for your comments. The photo is a bit of a poser and I thought because of the plum pudding a Christmas party, though my dad has one for his birthday on April 4th. I would agree using a flag as a table cloth would also appear strange. Re the good conduct badges, Richard would have been eligible for a Long Service Good Conduct Medal at the end of 1915. I wonder if one of the family photo's on the table is of Richard's son John, who lost his life on the Hood. Changing tack a little, on another thread there was mention of tattoo's. Richard had a sailor and flag tattooed on his right forearm and crossed flags and the initials ALRP on the left forearm. Do the letters ALRP have any naval significance. Regards, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 There is a possibility it could be 'Dead men's defects' ie a picture prior to auctioning off the belongings of Cressy victims. This was a common occurence following the loss of a vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 There is a possibility it could be 'Dead men's defects' ie a picture prior to auctioning off the belongings of Cressy victims. This was a common occurence following the loss of a vessel. Matelots would put in a bid for each item, no matter how cheesy that item might be. In these circumstances sailors would always pay over the odds as a gesture. The final sum would be sent to the widow or dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 There is a possibility it could be 'Dead men's defects' ie a picture prior to auctioning off the belongings of Cressy victims. This was a common occurence following the loss of a vessel. Matelots would put in a bid for each item, no matter how cheesy that item might be. In these circumstances sailors would always pay over the odds as a gesture. The final sum would be sent to the widow or dependant. This sounds a very logical explanation. I have heard of this happening as early as the American War of Independence. However I tthoght that really personal stuff like family photos etc usually got sent home to the family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 "There is a possibility it could be 'Dead men's defects' ie a picture prior to auctioning off the belongings of Cressy victims. This was a common occurence following the loss of a vessel. Matelots would put in a bid for each item, no matter how cheesy that item might be. In these circumstances sailors would always pay over the odds as a gesture. The final sum would be sent to the widow or dependant." I have auctioned "Dead mens Kit" on a few occasions not the right setting at all. They only auction the mans service kit and your right I have seen a lot of money paid for a sock, but personal belongings are sent to the next of kin. The sale of effects is done in accordance with Kings/Queens Regulations. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 21 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2007 Clio/Centurion, Thanks for your comments but surely their belongings would have gone down with the ship, especially personal belongings like photo's. I could readily believe the survivors holding some form of money raising event for the victims later tho'. Richard was attached to Pembroke II the day after the sinking, so maybe it was there. Charles, I can only respectfully accept the views of someone who has clearly experienced such events. Regards to all, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 there are no glasses,plates or cutlery on view,and the beer has not been opened,therefore i think it is a sale of somekind/not a party meal.some of the photos do not look personal,front left looks like king/prince with a sash.also i think most sailors had photos with them but would they have been that large and in frames?.all the best jamesbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 21 May , 2007 Share Posted 21 May , 2007 Looking at the guys faces could very well be a wake. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campaign Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Yes, my thoughts are a wake - those black borders on pictures??? Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaisersoffensive Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Bottom left look like a cake and pudding or plum duff, could be Christmas? Photos for absent loved ones. I might be imagining things but doesn't the plum duff pudding have a sprig of something sticking out of it or are my eyes deceiving me. In our house we used to put a sprig of holly in ours,taht was when we could afford one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 It would explain the reversed ensign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 22 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Lyn, I think the black border must have been fashionable at the time. I have a photo of my Grandfather who survived the war posing in his Shropshire Yeomanry uniform, and that has a black border. It could be a wake I suppose as Charles suggests and James comments certainly make a lot of sense. Kaiseroffensive, I have a 1.6MB image and it doesn't look like a sprig of holly tho' not sure what else it could be. There looks to be a flower on the table by the sailor on the right. Centurion, could you explain the reversed ensign for me please. Thanks to all who have responded, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Lyn, I think the black border must have been fashionable at the time. I have a photo of my Grandfather who survived the war posing in his Shropshire Yeomanry uniform, and that has a black border. It could be a wake I suppose as Charles suggests and James comments certainly make a lot of sense. Kaiseroffensive, I have a 1.6MB image and it doesn't look like a sprig of holly tho' not sure what else it could be. There looks to be a flower on the table by the sailor on the right. Centurion, could you explain the reversed ensign for me please. Thanks to all who have responded, Eric. Se Joseph's post at beginning of thread. Reversing one's colours used to be a sign of mourning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 22 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Centurion, Thank you, I could see that the ensign was the wrong way round, but didn't realise it was a sign of mourning. That must be the context for drawing any further conclusions from the photo. Regards, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Mourning in war is not incompatable with other events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 23 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2007 Mourning in war is not incompatable with other events. Fair comment, but as the Cressy was sunk on 22nd September 1914 I would think the photo was taken at a fund raising event/wake for the victims shortly after. Would the sailors still be in mourning at christmas? I think the survivors would have been posted to various ships or shore based establishments by then. Regards, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campaign Posted 23 May , 2007 Share Posted 23 May , 2007 Fair comment, but as the Cressy was sunk on 22nd September 1914 I would think the photo was taken at a fund raising event/wake for the victims shortly after. Would the sailors still be in mourning at christmas? I think the survivors would have been posted to various ships or shore based establishments by then. Regards, Eric. Hi - Ive looked at your picture and looked and and....dont think it is Christmas.......Ive an old photo of my grandad with his shipmates which may or may not be on a vessel, could even be in a studio.........not saying this is, .....do you think they'd be a bit more inventive to create a xmas atmosphere and be jolly for the photo? don't know, perhaps a similar pic has been posted before with an explanation, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric e Posted 24 May , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2007 dont think it is Christmas Campaign, Tend to agree, only item that gives me any doubt is the steam pudding. Whatever it is was certainly made in a basin, summer or sponge pudding perhaps. Regards, Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 24 May , 2007 Share Posted 24 May , 2007 Campaign, Tend to agree, only item that gives me any doubt is the steam pudding. Whatever it is was certainly made in a basin, summer or sponge pudding perhaps. Regards, Eric. Or a Blancmange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 24 May , 2007 Share Posted 24 May , 2007 Certainly looks like a blancmange to me. Once a very popular pudding and the centrepiece of many a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 24 May , 2007 Share Posted 24 May , 2007 Hi, This Do is ashore? A couple of points about the Great War Royal Navy; The sailors cooked for themselves, no cooks or chefs to make Blancmange or Plum Duff (Spotted Dick). Beer on the table, at sea or in a messdeck ashore not unknown but not the done thing. The collars look very new and dark blue the two badgemans would be nearly white. The Ensign is reversed. I see there is only one bottle of beer open, but matelotes are generally a happy bunch. Unless its sarsaparilla! The photographs are unusual, but as it could be after the sinking of HMS Cressey their photos would have gone down so maybe new ones. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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