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Remembered Today:

Aussies at Blackboy camp WA, Pre war ,post War ?


montbrehain

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Mo, just like to thankyou agian for the map you sent me, with all the essentials marked on it. It will be invaluable when we get to the Battlefields.

Cheers

Kim

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Hi All,

The embarkation rolls showed whether the man was serving in the militia on "the date of enrolment" in the AIF, not whether he had served in the militia.

In Perth enrolment commenced on August 10th, 1914 - after 2 days 950 men had enrolled. 158 were currently serving in the militia, 482 were "trained but not serving at present" and 310 had no previous military experience.

Recruiting centres at that time were: Perth, Fremantle, Kalgoorlie, Geraldton, Midland Junction, Bunbury, Northam, Albany and Wagin.

Good on you,

Grant

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Moyhu , Will have a go at your list when I get time ( just started new job )

Any other thoughts on the picture would be welcome too "MO"

Mo (1)

Let's hope the new job does not interfere too much with your projects.

As to thoughts on the picture, well the Blackboy tentmates would tend to stick together and so form a subset in that picture.

To refresh your memory I have reposted it. As the group sitting in the sand in front of the Pyramid are a couple of inches taller than the tentmates you have named, we can discount them and work up the rows.

Mo (2)

post-20308-1178588568.jpg

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Guest nobelius
Proving that these men sailed with the 11th Battalion does not answer the specific pre war, post war question.

In many cases almost complete units of pre-war Militia joined the AIF together. So the group may have done pre war training at Blackboy, and would have used their Militia uniforms after enlisting. The embarkation rolls should show any Militia experience. Another clue would be their home address as most CMF units were quite localised.

Raw recruits at Blackboy are more usually pictured in the white floppy hats, and new chum pictures tend to be of awkward self conshus, holiday camp groupings. There's no definite proof, but these men have the air of belonging to the group.

No definite clue from their tent or the background, but the single tent in the background, and the impression of space might suggest a less chaotic camp than would have existed between September & November 1914.

No bet is certain, but I'll take the prewar odds. No-one likes a smart... but post war it is not!

I T are probably the initials of the man sending home the picture. The recipient would recognise the sender, so no need to spell it out.

How WRONG can a person be?

Blackboy Hill did not exist pre-war!

Embarkation Rolls do not list experience!

White floppy hats were not the go!

The men did not previously belong to a group!

I T are probably not the initials of the man sending home the picture!

The only correct statement seems to be No-one likes a smart..

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Hi Andrew,

Thank you for these links. My Grandmother is the lady with the shovel digging the foundation in the second photo down the side of the first link. My cousin has the same photograph. I hadn't realised a book had been published on the cottage. Many thanks for the heads up.

Regards

Chris

What a great piece of family history to have Chris. Glad to know your family has the photograph in their collection.

Cheers

Andrew

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Will have to put that cottage on our "to visit" if and when we ever get over to WA. Strange they should build it in a Day, I wonder if there is any significance or connection with an ancient law of the New forest here in Hampshire? If you can build a house in the forest and have a fire going in hearth by nightfall the house can be left to stand and lived in . This is a very ancient law and probably didn't involve bricks or modern building regs :lol: And I dont know if anybody has ever tested it either ?

Stevebecker , you mention training camps in other parts of WA ? The picture I attach here was taken in Bunbury (or at least a Bunbury studio) Does anybody know the name of the camp in this area ? I have not looked up the sender of the letter yet.

Moyhu , Will have a go at your list when I get time ( just started new job )

Any other thoughts on the picture would be welcome too "MO"

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Hi Mo

Steve may know for sure but I have the feeling that it was just called Bunbury Camp. I used to have a photo of a reinforcement group that was training there and I'm pretty sure it just stated 'Bunbury Camp'.

Cheers

Andrew

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The man in the middle of the photo is definitely 2nd Lieut. Charlton Hogarth PROCKTER (Mentioned in Despatches), 11th Battalion AIF.

Born Riverdale Road, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Victoria, 24 Dec 1891.

Father; Henry James Prockter. Mother; Eliza Annie Prockter (nee Hogarth), of Lingfield, Surrey, England.

He was educated at Sutton Valence Grammar School, Kent, & Guildford Grammar School, WA.

Lance Corporal no. 217, B Company.

Formerly of Perth, aged 23 years. Father, H.J. Prockter of Surrey. (PerthWestern Herald 10 Sep 1915 p31).

No previous military service. Other training 'In his Father's Office (Architect) Perth WA and Mr Robert Officers Station in N.S.W.' At 19 years of age he was chief overseer of Mr Officers, [? CHECK handwriting] Station Killarra N.S.W.' (AWM 131 Informant Father, Henry James Prockter, of The Gables, Lingfield, Surrey, England 'late of Melbourne & Perth W.A.' Other reference for official historian listed as "Dr. Hamilton Russell, Examiner, Melbourne University.')

Taken on Strength from Reinforcements, 7th May 1915. Promoted Corporal 26 May 1915. Promoted Sergeant 11 July 1915. Promoted 2nd Lieutenant with effect from 1 July 1915. Killed in action 6th August 1915. Buried Shell Green cemetery by Chaplain T.G. Robertson. (B103).

Fatally wounded in an attack from the southern end of Tasmania Post against Leane's Trench, which had been captured by the Australians, then counter-attacked and re-taken by the Turks early on August 6th:

'The charge was at once made. Prockter's men, who were largely reinforcements, had no more than forty yards to traverse, but were met by heavy fire. Part of them, missing the trench, ran south of it into the gully, and were killed by the enemy's machine-guns. About half the party - mostly wounded and too few to assault the trench successfully - reached the parados and flung themselves down behind it. Two newly-arrived reinforcements, named Johns and Morrison, could be seen coolly rising and firing rapidly into the trench or the gully and then sheltering again.

...As the first rush had failed, MacLagan ordered Franklyn to charge. This party was met with even heavier fire than the first, but most of it reached the parados and stood for a moment firing down. Then, as the enemy fell or spread, the survivors of both parties jumped into the trench. All the enemy in it were killed, but six were captured in the tunnel. Of the parties which made this gallant counter-attack, both had suffered heavily. Both officers were mortally wounded. [by shell-fire on the edge of the trench. Prockter died in the aid post; Franklyn on the hospital ship]. In Prockter's party of 26, 8 were killed and 18 wounded, the gallant Johns and Morrison both losing their lives.' (Bean Vol. 2 p492, 493, 493n).

Lieutenants Prockter and Franklyn were recommended for extreme gallantry and devotion to duty for their part in the capture of 'Turkish Despair', which became 'Leane's Trench.' (See Belford p139 -140).

(See also West Australian Mail 27 Aug 1915 p8).

Station overseer / Manager of Sheep Station, of Kalamunda, Western Australia.

Died of wounds at Leane's Trench, Southern Anzac sector, 6 August 1915, aged 23. Buried Shell Green cemetery, Anzac. Grave has no epitaph.

Prockter did not serve in the militia, so this is an AIF group photo.

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Thanks Bryn,

That is great information for me, I will visit his grave again in September.

Cheers

Shirley

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There's a photo of Lieut. Prockter in the Perth Western Mail 10 Dec 1915 p25.

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Hi Bryn,

Are these newspapers at the State Library? Couldn't find them online, that would be too easy really!

Cheers

Shirley

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Probably Shirley,

last time I was in Australia I checked the Mitchell in Sydney and they had them.

I actually originally saw it at the British Library's newspaper library in Colindale, London.

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Hi Shirley

In addition to Bryn's info the State Library of WA have the Western Mail, Sunday Times & West Australian on microfiche.

Another paper which might be of interest is called the Swan Express. I have not looked at this one yet but hope to do so next week when I go into the State Library.

I've been told the 'Swan Express' started out as the 'Camp Chronicle' in regards to Blackboy Hill Camp but hopefully I can confirm that next week.

Cheers

Andrew

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Thanks Bryn,

Hi Andrew,

I can see the State Library could become my NA locally. When I get back from UK, I will wear my badge (with pride :) , then we could meet in the cafeteria!

Do you know if they are happy for us to use a digital camera to record information?

Very interesting re "Camp Chronicle", looking forward to hearing about what you find there.

Cheers

Shirley

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Hi Shirley

I haven't done so myself but I believe that researchers can use a digital camera in the Private Archives section.

Cheers

Andrew

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Found these photos yesterday, and used the digital camera to try and record them.

Do you think this is the 10th Light Horse at Guildford depot, rather than Blackboy Hill - looks flat.

post-20012-1179488592.jpg

Cheers

Shirley

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The attachments ran away with me, before I could add that those are the same 4 lads, training at home, in Egypt then off they went to Gallipoli.

Cheers

Shirley

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Can anyone tell me what the 10th Light Horse site just north of Wanneroo was used for? Was it a training area or just used for the guys to group prior to moving out to the front?

Very interesting thread.

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Found these photos yesterday, and used the digital camera to try and record them.

Do you think this is the 10th Light Horse at Guildford depot, rather than Blackboy Hill - looks flat.

post-20012-1179488592.jpg

Cheers

Shirley

Hi Shirley

The first photo you posted could also be Rockingham Camp as the 10th spent some time there prior to embarkation.

That's a good photo of the Harper & Lukin boys. Someone sent me a photocopy of that photo a few years ago as they were researching those four. I'll see if I can dig out their contact details for you.

Cheers

Andrew

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Can anyone tell me what the 10th Light Horse site just north of Wanneroo was used for? Was it a training area or just used for the guys to group prior to moving out to the front?

Very interesting thread.

Hi Ramsay

I stand to be corrected but I'm pretty sure the 10th Light Horse trail at Wanneroo was utilised more between World War 1 & 2 by the 10th Light Horse Militia than for anything in WW1.

The trail also marks out where the 10th Light Horse trained in WW2, and I believe that was also where they had their last camp before they were disbanded as part of the regular defence force.

They had formed part of the defence of WA but did not serve overseas at any time during WW2. Of course the 10th Light Horse still forms part of the Army Reserve.

Regards

Andrew

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  • 2 months later...

WOW! What a find!

I am the great nephew of 2/Lt Charlton Hogarth Prockter and currently am trying to find out as much information about his military life as I can. I am incredibly lucky to have his medals, and diary of his time up to his death in the above mentioned attack. I also have many letters from and about him. If anyone would like some more information about him then please do not hesitate to contact me.

I had never seen the photograph of him in the first post although I have several of him.

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Hi there Supermark,

Just found your post. I would love to have more information on Charlton Prockter, as I am gradually building up details of the Old boys of Guildford Grammar School Western Australia who died in WW1.

A belated welcome to the Forum, and you will find much to inform and engage you here :)

Cheers

Shirley

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Hi, thanks for the welcome. I will send you a PM and hopefully we can share some information to help each other out.

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Hi Supermark,

Have sent a pm so we can exchange information. In 2005 Chris and I visited Gallipoli and we laid a little wooden cross with wattle and a school ribbon, that had been made by one of our students in the industrial workshop, on your great uncle's grave in Shell Green Cemetery. Charlton Prockter is remembered and honoured by all of us.

Cheers

Shirley

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A letter from his Lt Col:

Dear Sir,

It is with extreme regret that I have to confirm what has doubtless been communicated to you by the departmentthe death of lieut: C. H. Prockter who was killed in action on the 6th inst. On that morning Lt Prockter very gallantly led a party of 25 men in an assault on a trench occupied by the Turks when close to the Turks he was hit in the leg by a shell and although he was promtly conveyed to the aid post his injuries were so severe that although conscious he died from shock and loss of blood.

I exceedingly regret the loss of such a gallant and efficient young officer. He had been a popular and valued member of my Battalion since we were formed, and only on 1st July last he has been promoted to commisioned rank.

I beg you to accept this sappressions of sincere sympathy and sorrow from his comrades of all ranks in the 11th Battalion.

(signed) yours faithfully

J. Lyon Johnston

Lt Col

C/O XI Bn 1st a.i.f.

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