Aussies at Blackboy camp WA, Pre war ,post War ?

[Guest nobelius]

Andrew.

I was WRONG.

Vern

[PhilB]

Phil,

In 1914-18 Blackboy Hill was in the scrub off the Great Western Highway. Chris

Great Eastern Highway? Where it starts to climb out of Midland? Phil B

[montbrehain]

ALL , thank you very very much for your most welcome help. I hope it has given you all as much pleasure researching these men as it has me. I have been collecting photographs of AIF soldiers for over 20 years and most are unnamed. but it gives me great satisfaction to be able to identify and trace the ones that are named . Of course much of the help is down to you , but I think we will all agree the fact that Australian Records are on-line and freely available is a godsend (anybody want to buy a heavily used set of AIF nominal roll on microfiche ) If only the British Public Records Office was the same. I have a few more Photos of soldiers at Blackboy camp that i think may be of interest . Please let me know if you would like them posted ? And to conclude, I am going to list below what I believe is an accurate summery. please let us know if you feel otherwise . Best wishes "MO"

Back row , Left to Right: 203 Edward Donald Lindsey , 155 Alvered Roe Cecil Clifton , Believed to be 217 Charleton Hogarth Prockter , WX 11049 (served second war) Frederick Albrecht , 241 David William Thomas

Front Row: 218 Arthur Deacon Pleydell , 409 John Alexander Gollan , 143 Arthur Bird Brook , 141 Joseph William Bunning.

[Crunchy]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ May 4 2007, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Eastern Highway? Where it starts to climb out of Midland? Phil B

Phil,

Correct weight. My mistake. I've driven over it enough times. Must have been a seniors' moment.

Regards

Chris

[montbrehain]

Chris , your post on the "Soldiers Queen" was very interesting. Is there any chance of posting the cover of the magazine you mention ? Did she live close the camp ? I have not heard of this story before. But its good she was remembered all those years later. Do you have any more information or pictures ? "MO"

[Crunchy]

Mo,

Unfortuantely the printing is on silk and is very worn. I'll try with a scan and see if it comes up. Give me a couple of days.

She lived in Mt Lawley which is an inner suburb of Perth and about 20km from Blackboy Hill.

Regards

Chris

[Guest moyhu]

Well done Mo

You seem to have that group sorted!

Given the success in identifying them, and aided by the nominations in the Sphynx picture, would you care to oversee the naming of another group of 11 Battalion men from the same period?

[montbrehain]

Umm well, (cough) NO !

[ShirlD]

HA

Have much enjoyed the last 3 days, and Chris reading it through in one fell swoop last night was riveted.

Thank you all

Cheers

Shirley

[ShirlD]

Yes please, bring on the rest!

[PhilB]

I had thought that the 11th Bn was the renamed 11th(Perth) Militia Bn and would be virtually a Pals Bn of Perth men. However, it says above that men came in via Albany so probably not the case? Phil B

[Guest moyhu]

MO,

Sorry you thought the request to identify the men of the Eleventh would test our combined resources.

Setting the bar a little lower, I am interested in this group of recruits who went from Rutherglen to Broadmeadows in the Seventh Battalion under their local school Headmaster, Lt Denehey.

BALL, G

BEVAN, B

CANNING,B

CARTNER, A

EGGLESTONE, C

EVANS, H

HILL, A

FULLERTON, P

McPHERSON, A

MONAR,W

NOTT, J

PEARCE, J

SCHWARER, J

SLOWE, J

UPBOUND, G

WAUGH, J

Just as well the last named came back, eh?

Do you feel up to that challenge (insert appropriate smiley)

Mo (2)

[Crunchy]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ May 5 2007, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had thought that the 11th Bn was the renamed 11th(Perth) Militia Bn and would be virtually a Pals Bn of Perth men. However, it says above that men came in via Albany so probably not the case? Phil B

Not really Phil.

11th Australian Infantry Regiment (WA) was formed in 1903 from the Western Australian Infantry Regiment with the creation of the Australian Military Forces (AMF) after Federation. When the compulsory service scheme was introduced in 1911 the 11th AIR was converted into the 84th Infantry (Goldfields Regiment), the 86th Infantry (Western Australian Rifles) and the 88th (Perth) Infantry. The 85th Infantry remained a vacant WA unit on the ORBAT. These militia battalions remained on the AMF establishment throughout the war and by law the AMF could not serve outside of Australia.

Consequently the AIF was raised as a seperate force for overseas service and the 11th Battalion was formed from the first flush of volunteers mainly from Perth, Fremantle and country towns such as Bunbury and Albany, while the 16th was raised mainly from the outer country districts of Western and South Australia, with a good number from the Eastern Goldfields of Coolgardie, Kalgoorlie and Boulder. Nonetheless, given the size of the population a good many mates joined up together in the same unit.

Western Australia provided the 11th Bn, one company of the 12th and two companies of the 16th in 1914, all of whom were at Blackboy Hill

Regards

Chris

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I don't know if you mentioned it but I have this on;

GOLLAN John Alexander 409 A/Sgt CSqn/10 LHR

He crossed from the BCo/11Bn (183) to the 10 LHR due to his brother Allan being in A Sqn 10 LHR who must have claimed him.

Both recived a MID during the war.

John was WIA in the charge at the Nek being in the 4th line in the charge and the last to go over the top, he was shot in the left leg and hand when by mistake half the 4th line went over the top when a mix up of orders happened at the end of that attack.

I thought the reference to his service in the 11th (Inf Regt) (10th LHR enlistment form) may have been in the Milita but I see its from his early enlistment in the 11Bn.

Cheers

S.B

[ShirlD]

The School magazine August 1914 records that mobilisation had affected several members of the football team for the return match against Scotch College, and also the personnel of the end-of-term play and concert.

"the call to arms has had its effect on a good number of Old Boys and GGS is well represented in the WA contingents. So far as can be ascertained, our quota in the First Expeditionary Force numbered ten - their names being as follows: Major Edmund Drake-Brockman, President of the Old Boys' Association, Sidney E. Evans (Engineers Section; Thomas D. Cusack, Douglas Barrett-Lennard, Alex Mcleod, Julius Mcleod, Clive M. Shenton (Artillery), Beresford E. Bardwell, Leslie Parry, Charlton H. Prockter and AHT Mountain (Infantry). Gavin Porter as as commissioned officer of the Royal Artillery, went over to Belgium with the First British Expeditionary Force, and was in the thick of the fighting at Mons.

As might be expected in a School which includes so large a percentage of country members on its list of Old Boys, GGS was better represented in the Light Horse section than any other, and at least a dozen Old Guildfordians are at present in camp at the Guildford depot. They are: B Brede, W Brede, RC Crowther, JM Ferguson, G Drake-Brockman, Wilfred Harper, Gresley Harper, Sidney Johnson, Bob Lukin, WM Lyall and VF Piesse."

Would they have a depot in every little town and that be a first point of enlistment? That would help create pals battalions. Next point then the larger regional areas like Fremantle and Albany?

Cheers

Shirley

[Crunchy]

Shirley,

From my understanding each of the main centres such as Perth, Fremantle, Albany, Kattanning, Bunbury, etc would have a recruiting office based on the militia depots and once accpeted the men would go to Guilford and Blackboy Hill to join their units for recruit training.

Regards

Chris

[ShirlD]

Thanks Chris,

So would you transfer from the AMF to the AIF in order to go overseas and fight? And was Guildford for the Light Horse, and Blackboy Hill for infantry?

The more you think you understand something, the more there is to learn

Cheers

Shirley

[Crunchy]

Hi Shirley,

My understanding is that one had to enlist in the AIF and thus the man was relieved from further service in the AMF. I am not sure of the actual procedure, but they were two different forces and service in the AMF was compulsory.

I'm not sure of the training grounds. According to Westralian Cavalry in the War by Olden the LH were concentrated at Guildford near the Old Remount Depot in October as C squadron of the 7th LH. Due to the number of enlistees this group became A squadron of the 10th LH. The Royal Agricultural Society Showground at Claremont was used to raise and undertake the initial training of B and C squadrons, who then marched to Guildford in late October to join A squadron.

In December the Regiment moved back to Claremont and in early January they sailed from the Claremont jetty to Rockingham where they remained for a month and then moved back to Claremont. They sailed from Fremantle on 8th February.

Regards

Chris

[ShirlD]

Thanks Chris for your interesting information,

When you see the boys on Friday afternoon Pony Club activity, it is not too hard to imagine the scene 97 or so years ago enlisting with the Light Horse. (Mind you a fair number opt for golf these days!)

Cheers

Shirley

[stevenbecker]

Shirley,

Reinforcments for the 10th LHR did go threw the training camp at Blackboy hill which appears to be for all types of soldiers.

But there were other sub training areas around the state that took these soldiers from Blackboy for further training in special traing, like Signalers and Camel Corps Reinforments.

S.B

[Guest beechie]

The embarkation rolls that several people searched when identifying the recruits in Mo's picture showed whether the man had been a member of the Militia.

Although there were 'boy-conscripts' in the Militia after the Kitchener Scheme was adopted in 1910, most of those were still too young to enlist in the AIF in 1914. The vast majority of those "Transferring" from the CMF or Militia were those who had volunteered for part time service in mainly Light Horse or Artillary Units. The AIF was structured regionally by building each Infantry Battalion or Light Horse Regiment on local militia units.

In Victoria, for instance, the first 4 Battalions were raised using the State Map as a Pie Chart. Four segments radiated from Melbourne at the lower centre. Each included several Metropolitan Drill Halls and the Regional Drill Halls in that segment. The majority of enlistments were taken at the major Metropolitian Army Barracks, or at the suburban & regional Drill Halls. Police stations were used in smaller locations.

Just a thought, but did the Film Gallipoli show both Light Horse & Infantry recruits at Blackboy.

[Andrew P]

Hi Shirley

Having gone through diaries and letters of local soldiers the majority of them did go through Blackboy at some stage but as Steve says there were also various camps for other arms of the service. Men of the AAMC spent some time training at Belmont and most of the infantry went to the Osborne rifle range which is in the vicinity of the Swanbourne Barracks.

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew P]

For those interested in Anzac Cottage here's an article by David Dolan

http://www.heritage.gov.au/ourhouse/essay33.html

Another by the Vietnam Veterans Association

http://www.vvaawa.org.au/Cottage.htm

And here's a link to a book that's just been released on the subject

http://www.uwapress.uwa.edu.au/titles/index/anzac_cottage

[Crunchy]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for these links. My Grandmother is the lady with the shovel digging the foundation in the second photo down the side of the first link. My cousin has the same photograph. I hadn't realised a book had been published on the cottage. Many thanks for the heads up.

Regards

Chris

[montbrehain]

Will have to put that cottage on our "to visit" if and when we ever get over to WA. Strange they should build it in a Day, I wonder if there is any significance or connection with an ancient law of the New forest here in Hampshire? If you can build a house in the forest and have a fire going in hearth by nightfall the house can be left to stand and lived in . This is a very ancient law and probably didn't involve bricks or modern building regs And I dont know if anybody has ever tested it either ?

Stevebecker , you mention training camps in other parts of WA ? The picture I attach here was taken in Bunbury (or at least a Bunbury studio) Does anybody know the name of the camp in this area ? I have not looked up the sender of the letter yet.

Moyhu , Will have a go at your list when I get time ( just started new job )

Any other thoughts on the picture would be welcome too "MO"