MartH Posted 4 March , 2007 Share Posted 4 March , 2007 Hi ATM The point about wirless intecepts is very important. Room 40, the decrpt and intelligence room in WW1 was instrumental in the start of the Jutland operations, giving Jellico early warning of the German's intentions, (and the decision to retreat back to port.) Failings in the use of these led to the sucessors of Room 40, in WW2 involved in Ultra changing and improving how its used, when the initial set up of the organisation to use Signet. Changes in Room 40 post Jutland would have meant more effective use in WW1 and things being unpleasent for the German High Seas Fleet. Regards Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 March , 2007 Share Posted 4 March , 2007 Thankyou for the replies. I have command of all destroyers, cruisers, battleships and battlecruisers etc in the North Sea. Remember that you also have some seaplane carriers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 4 March , 2007 Share Posted 4 March , 2007 Better yet you could send out Furious; most of the seaplane carriers were out in the Med, but those that remained and the kite balloons would increase your horizon. Read Taffrail's 'Endless Story' and operate your cruisers and destroyers aggresively. Have all 5 Queen Elizabeth's cordinating with Renown and Repulse in the van. Have Beatty keel hauled then shot at noon after he makes a mess of leading even the destroyers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 5 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2007 Thankyou MartH. Jutland is/was a perfect excuse for the improvement of and use of wireless within the fleet. I should have really thought about that more. Alas as the scenario is May 1917 I do not have the Furious available to me. But at least I have the Courageous and Glorious to add their fire power to the Renown and Repulse. It looks like I'll have to take the Vindex and Ben-My-Chree as they were apparently the fastest seaplane carriers, unless anybody knows of any others? I am considering another version of the second battle of Heligoland Bight but earlier in the year. Taking: 2nd Battlecruiser Squadron HMS Tiger HMS Lion HMS Princess Royal 3rd Battlecruiser Squadron: HMS Renown HMS Repluse HMS Courageous HMS Glorious 5th Battle Squadron: HMS Valiant HMS Warspite HMS Barham HMS Malaya HMS Queen Elizabeth HMS Canada as well as 22 (Arethusa and "C" Class) Light Cruisers and 67 Destroyers. Seaplane Carriers Vindex and Ben-My-Chree. The force would be commanded by Packenham and the destroyers under Tyrwhitt. Would it be wiser to keep it a smaller raiding force, and drop the 2nd Battlecruiser squadron and drop HMS Canada? BTW, thanks for your answers. This is helping alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 5 March , 2007 Share Posted 5 March , 2007 ATM, If you're selling tickets, I want one ! Mick PS Take Engadine too, and some torpedos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 5 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2007 Lol. This is going to last an entire afternoon. You would get some value for money though. Me and the rest of my sturdy band of men have been buying white ensigns, a couple of bottles of pussers rum, have been practising our Bristol accents and have bought pipes to (pretend to) puff on. I have learnt that I do a pretty good Captain Jack Sparrow impression so intend to give that a whirl when the game comes about. Before hand we are going down the pub and doing some arm wrestling accompanied with Rum and cokes. We intend to go into battle in true style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 5 March , 2007 Share Posted 5 March , 2007 In reading a English language bio of Admiral Hipper some years agothe HSF used up alarge amount of coal and oil everytime it went to sea. Both of these were in short supply in Germany. The KUK had the same problem. This really put a crimp in their plans. If I can find my notes from the book I'll post more info here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 5 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2007 Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 6 March , 2007 Share Posted 6 March , 2007 Take the battlecruisers, just make sure they follow correct anti flash proceedures! What shells and propellent are you using? Are you saddled with Krupp fuses? Have you read the 1915 Gunnery Manual, the 1917 Projectile Committee report, or at the very least Brown, D. K., The Grand Fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 6 March , 2007 Share Posted 6 March , 2007 Hi And stick Signal 16 back in the Signal book! Regards Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 7 March , 2007 Share Posted 7 March , 2007 I found my notes from Admiral Von Hipper The Inconveniet Hero" Tobais R. Phibin. They say the HSF suffered from poor coal which decreased range and speed, caused heavy smoke and boilers need cleaning in 1/2 the usual time. Winter 1917 coal shortage. The german battlecruisers and other ships had a history of engine trouble. The Moltke suffered an engine breakdown during the 1918 North Sea sortie. So it looks like a operation in the Atlantic was not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 7 March , 2007 Share Posted 7 March , 2007 I found my notes from Admiral Von Hipper The Inconveniet Hero" Tobais R. Phibin. They say the HSF suffered from poor coal which decreased range and speed, caused heavy smoke and boilers need cleaning in 1/2 the usual time. Winter 1917 coal shortage. The german battlecruisers and other ships had a history of engine trouble. The Moltke suffered an engine breakdown during the 1918 North Sea sortie. So it looks like a operation in the Atlantic was not a good idea. Mystifying, considering Germany's vast coal industry and the fact that the steel industry continued producing high-grade products right to the end. Perhaps the WW1 allies should be grateful that Imperial Germany didn't have an Albert Speer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 7 March , 2007 Share Posted 7 March , 2007 Sounds a great idea - for the British! If the German fleet broke down in range of the guns, even a fleet under Beatty might be able to hit them once or twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted 9 March , 2007 Share Posted 9 March , 2007 We tend to think of unrest and revolution in the German Navy as something that only reared it's head towards the end of the war. In fact there was some unrest in the fleet in 1917. This gave rise to a lack of trust between ships and units of ships. Interestingly the prospect of "going to sea; going to fight" would probably have helped pull the fleet back together, but equally there was unrest at the top as to whether the unrest would flare up and cause problems at sea. All a bit of a quandary, this, but it probably did not encourage any offensive actions/ Why did the men of the surface navy revolt whereas the U-boat crews and the army never did? Did the lack of action negate the creation of a strong common bond among the crews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 10 March , 2007 Share Posted 10 March , 2007 Why did the men of the surface navy revolt whereas the U-boat crews and the army never did? Did the lack of action negate the creation of a strong common bond among the crews? Interesting question, to which I don't know a ready answer. Could it be that the U-boats felt that they always had a fighting chance, whereas the surface fleet knew they were being asked to embark on a death ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 11 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2007 lol, you and Beatty. It's a real hate hate thing isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 11 March , 2007 Share Posted 11 March , 2007 How ever did you guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 11 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 11 March , 2007 I suspect it is in similar fashion to my hatred of Mark Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionia Posted 12 March , 2007 Share Posted 12 March , 2007 I found my notes from Admiral Von Hipper The Inconveniet Hero" Tobais R. Phibin. They say the HSF suffered from poor coal which decreased range and speed, caused heavy smoke and boilers need cleaning in 1/2 the usual time. Winter 1917 coal shortage. The german battlecruisers and other ships had a history of engine trouble. The Moltke suffered an engine breakdown during the 1918 North Sea sortie. So it looks like a operation in the Atlantic was not a good idea. The MOLTKE lost a propellor and other damage resulted before the shaft could be stopped. The problem did relate to the engines themselves or boilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 12 March , 2007 Share Posted 12 March , 2007 Germany's coal was of relatively poor quality & less suitable for burning in ships than Welsh steam coal. It produced more smoke & had a lower energy output. Before the war the Germans had imported higher quality coal for naval use. Roger Chickering says on p. 138 of Imperial Germany and the Great War that German coal production in 1917 was 10% less than before the war but doesn't say why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 13 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2007 Had the Germans bought Welch coal pre-war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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