Billman1949 Posted 27 May , 2011 Share Posted 27 May , 2011 Hi I have just joined the forum as I found this post and wished to reply to it. I collect billhooks, new and old, and thus found this thread very interesting and useful. Sadly most of my archives are currently inaccessible, so I have to rely upon memory... From a Royal Armouries correspondent I found out there was a sealed pattern for a billhook from the late 19th century - I have not been able to obtain a copy or image of this, but the WW1 billhooks stamped 1914 onwards appear to be the Pontypool pattern, with a thick and heavy nose - a feature found on several other Welsh pattern of billhook such as the Monmouth. In outline this is also very similar to the Berkshire pattern, but this does not have a thickened nose, and like the rest of the hooks from the south of England has a distal taper, i.e. it tapers from handle to nose and from back to cutting edge... I guess the heavy Pontypool pattern was chosen because it is stronger and heavier than most other billhooks, would take a lot of misuse, and would be useful for more mundane tasks such as banging in tent pegs. The billhook has been around for over 2000 years in the UK, and is a useful tool for many purposes. Called a fascine knife in many other countries of Europe and in the USA, it was used for making fascines and gabions for defensive fortifications, trench supports etc, and thus was an ideal tool for machine gunners as it had been for cannon emplacements previously. Some colonial troops carried it in a purpose made holster or sheath, and I understand it was a ceremonial dress item for some sappers, but I have never found any sheath issued for use by the British Army. Its successor, the golok, a type of machete, was issued together with a canvas sheath about the time of the Korean War. The same pattern billhook as the 1914 issue was still being made for WW11, and later (some are stamped in the 1950's). Most English edge tools makers made them, and a great many different makers' stamps can be found. The vast majority were made in one size, a 10" blade, but I recently found a smaller 9" model. The Broad Arrow was still being used by some WW11 makers and up to the 1950's (e.g Elwell) ... The French army issued a Serpe de Genie (Sapper's billhook) with a leather sheath from WW1 period, later replaced by a similar model in canvas - most other European armies did so also, and I have several late issue Finnish leather sheaths, some stained khaki green, but sadly not yet found a finnish vesuri or billhook to go with them... The Spanish army were somewhat unique in having a double edged version and the Japanese for some reason copied an Italian design, not using their own native forms of Natagama. The armies of Scandinavia, Prussia and Germany issued fascine knives in the form of short swords to their troops, with leather sheaths - these were replaced towards the end of the 19th century with a billhook shaped version which would appear to have been commonplace by WW1. (see http://www.vikingswo...ad.php?p=121052). Britain seems to have been almost unique in issuing the billhook as a tool to be carried in a limber or tool box, rather than as a personal item... For more info on billhooks, see: www.billhooks.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 29 May , 2011 Share Posted 29 May , 2011 In my 18 Pr Gun Drill Book on page 81 Stores ccarriad on limbers:- Hooks,bill Wagon 1 Where carried. Under platform board, off side. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billman1949 Posted 18 June , 2011 Share Posted 18 June , 2011 A little off the era, but an interesting link to the Pioneer billhook from Canada in 1812: http://www.imuc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:the-pioneer&catid=34:articles&Itemid=67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 19 January , 2012 Share Posted 19 January , 2012 Heres my billhooks, all working tools. A military marked and dated 1915 and a French Serpe de Genie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 Billhooks were a countryman's tool, they seem to have been the primary tool for ditching & hedging. Hedging for the benefit of those who have never got mud on their boots was the English country practice of maintaining hedges by half cutting the trunks of small trees, etc, and bending them over, plus tidying up the random vegetation and cleaning out the ditches. In other words they were a tool for clearing scrub, brambles, etc (hence the hook shape), I'd guess they were also used in pollarding and maintaining coppices. From this I would deduce their miltary use was clearing scrub in preparation for occuppying the ground, eg laying out a camp site. There was no need for them to be permanently issued to individuals, there was battalion, etc, transport for them. I'd guess that an MG section would use them for clearing fields of fire. My guess is that in WW1 machetes were used to cut down bigger shrubbery. They remained on unit equipment scales for a long time. In WW2 they seem to have become more of a personal issue in SE Asia (my father brought his home), but in the 1950s were replaced as a personal issue but the Golok, a far better design than a machete (Goloks had a webbing sheaf and '44 pattern attachment). I suggest that reference to 'hooks' in the context of trench warfare has little to do with billhooks (unless the position had been occuppied for years and undergrowth was developing), more likely a hook on a pole or rope for pulling barbed wire out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 See post 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 Hi All Don't know how many makers of this item were, the one I have was made by: CORNELIUS. WHITEHOUSE & SONS. CANNOCK, dated 1815. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Can't see any good reason for carrying a billhook when 'going into action', we're talking Flanders here not the Shan States. Of course it is the British Army and its quite possible that some CO had the notion that a billhook might be a good idea for CQB, although I would think it a daft one. On the other hand if the unit was out of the line and brigade had called for working parties to clear the vegetation from an area for some purpose then no doubt billhooks would have been issued and carried, perhaps stuffed into men's smallpacks if these were taken as a lunchbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 In the book Drawing Fire, the author describes an attack by his London infantry battalion. He is faced by a German and pauses but his (the author`s) sergeant comes in from behind and splits the German`s head open with a billhook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 Can't see any good reason for carrying a billhook when 'going into action', we're talking Flanders here not the Shan States. Of course it is the British Army and its quite possible that some CO had the notion that a billhook might be a good idea for CQB, although I would think it a daft one. On the other hand if the unit was out of the line and brigade had called for working parties to clear the vegetation from an area for some purpose then no doubt billhooks would have been issued and carried, perhaps stuffed into men's smallpacks if these were taken as a lunchbox. I would imagine the items carried depended on the circumstances of their advance and what their objective was, I can understand the picks and shovels carried by 8th KOYLI on 1st July 1916, but the billhooks and hedging gloves would indicate something specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 I would imagine the items carried depended on the circumstances of their advance and what their objective was, I can understand the picks and shovels carried by 8th KOYLI on 1st July 1916, but the billhooks and hedging gloves would indicate something specific. Just speculation but if there was a shortage of wire cutters would a billhook cut through barbed wire (as they also took hedging gloves) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 28 January , 2012 Share Posted 28 January , 2012 I will see if I can find the orders for the day and see what else was issued. The billhooks I have wouldn't cut through barbed wire, but the gloves would make sense for handling the wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 If wire was beyond enemy observation then a working party may have been sent to clear grass and other vegetation that was growing in it. Alternatively it could be new wire being laid somewere behind the first line trenches and the ground need clearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Nigel, I don't think anyone is saying that a billhook was carried as a weapon, it was and is a useful clearing tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 My point is that I don't think there would be much to clear in an attack (other than barbed wire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 30 January , 2012 Share Posted 30 January , 2012 Nigel, I don't think anyone is saying that a billhook was carried as a weapon, Len Smith (London Regt) does in Drawing Fire. Would it be so different to a kukri in trench warfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 31 January , 2012 Share Posted 31 January , 2012 As I said in an earlier post, some COs may well have thought it a good idea. The thought occurred to me that if the barrage had passed through a previously untouched wood the troops might have thought it necessary to have something to clear away the litter, however, having had the opportunity to study the effect of rather a lot of HE in jungle (up close and still smell the HE) I don't think they'd have been a lot of help, but it's a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billman1949 Posted 25 August , 2013 Share Posted 25 August , 2013 Billhooks were issued to sappers, gun crews and signals units - they are no good for clearing barbed wire, unless one had some sort of anvil to cut against - barbed wire cutters are much more effective... Excellent for brush clearing/cutting to open lines of sight or provide camoflague material, they were used for cutting and splitting material (coppice wood) e.g. for making gabions or hurdles to provide support for ramparts/gun emplacement/trenches etc. A good general purpose all round tool, I guess they may have accumaulated in trenches and been left laying about ready for use - even as a weapon... Many are still being dug up in Flanders/France - mainly French and British patterns - I have not seen any German pattern appear on ebay (my usual source of billhooks). I have added some more info and images to my website, see: http://www.billhooks.co.uk/photos-and-other-images/military-billhooks-1/ http://www.billhooks.co.uk/photos-and-other-images/military-billhooks-2/ and http://www.billhooks.co.uk/photos-and-other-images/military-billhooks-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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