Prize Money

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Wasnt much though seeing they got themselves a submarine. gareth

A submarine didn't cost much (relative to destroyers, cruisers and battleships) and his share was small.

Some contemporary price comparisons for 1921-30 drawn from Dr Harold Priestley, 'the what it cost the day before yesterday book,' (Kenneth Mason, Havant, 1979).

Pint of beer 6d (2 1/2p); so he could get 20 pints for 10 shillings.

Cigarettes 20 for 1s (5p); 200 for 10 shillings.

Rail fare (1928) London Euston-Manchester (189 miles) £1/5/8 (£1.28) presumably 2nd class, but not noted - definately open return.

Ton of coal 30s (£1.50); 5 tons for £7/10/- (£7.50).

4 ft 6in oak bedstead (Waring and Gillow 1923) for £7/10/- (£7.50).

Billiard Table for £7/15/- (£7.75).

[per ardua per mare per terram]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 27 2007, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must have been galling for the RFC man who shoots down several aircraft or the infantry unit that captures a town! Phil B

It was ever thus! It was there in the Napoleonic Wars etc.; then the army supplimented their income by looting, which was frowned upon in the 20th century.

[PhilB]

Is prize money still active? Was there a payout for the Belgrano? Phil B

[welshdoc]

So with his £7 10 00 he could have a bed or billiard table .

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Tough choice! That was a 4 1/4ftx2 1/4 foot table. For his full £12 10 shillings (interim and the final award) he could get a 6 1//4x3 1/4 ft table.

[Michael Lowrey]

A submarine didn't cost much (relative to destroyers, cruisers and battleships) and is share was small.

Not necessarily, and size of vessel was not, in any case, what the pay out was based upon.

U-boats ranged in size from the 127 ton (142 ton submerged) UBI type small coastal torpedo attack boats to 2115 ton (2760 dubmerged) U 142 class U-cruisers. The typical U-series diesel-powered torpedo attack boat were in the 650 to 830 ton range surfaced, 837 to 1000 tons submerged. The UCII and UBIII types based at Flanders (and elsewhere) were still 400 tons+ and 500 tons+ surfaced respectively. By comparison, a British "M" or "R" class destroyer displaced about 1,000 tons.

Also, prize money was paid out at the rate £5 per (enemy) crew on board vessel sunk. Submarines, of course, have a relatively small crew for their displacement, thus the payout would be smaller than sinking, say, a destroyer. (There were also moneys paid out at a flat rate for a sinking a submarine.)

Best wishes,

Michael

[jamesbow]

found this whilst searching my fathers ship bacchante. jamesbow

[PhilB]

I`m really surprised that prize money was still being paid out then (& now?). In the case of ships sunk, which presumably the Heligoland Bight payment was for), did the money come from the taxpayer? Phil B

[Bombadier]

My Grandfather's Certificate of Service shows:-

Paid £12-10-0 Naval Prize Fund in Victory I

23 May 21 Paid 3/1 Jutland Prize Bounty (he was on Blanche which didn't fire a shot!)

19 Dec 23 Paid supplementary share Naval Prize Fund

Hope this helps

Nigel

[PhilB]

Jutland prize bounty? How come when we lost more ships than we sunk? Phil B

[Gibbo]

Prize money related to enemy casualties, not the difference between enemy & British casualties.

[PhilB]

Not much of an incentive to be economical with the King`s ships then? Phil B

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Apart from the incentive that its a wet walk home if you mess up? Or if things really get fouled up there were a higher percentage of casualties from a lost ship than any infantry battalion had on 1/7/1916.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Sorry for exagerating on the destroyers!

As no one has answered the one about prize money still being active, I will take a stab although I can't find the reference and only have a hazy idea! I think that prize money was phased out in the reforms (bloody axe job) of the 1920s, when they revised all pay rates and conditions of service. Otherwise the Swordfish crews at Toranto would have been rolling in it!

[londons]

Hi All,

My great grandfather was a CPO based out of Chatham Dock Yard. His Naval record mentions prize monies being awarded on various occasions. Someone told me that one of the reasons for the award was if his ship had been within sight of a naval battle?

Could someone confirm the reasons why prize money was given?

Many thanks,

Lee

[submarine]

Dear All

In "The Fleet Annual and Naval year book " 1917. Page 29

In the Prize court on Monday , December 11th Commander Edwards ,

of HM torpedo-boat destroyer "Laforey" with the Officers and ships

companies of three other Torpedo-boat destroyers ,claimed prize bounty

for the sinking of two Germany torpedo-boats in the North Sea on May

1st 1915.

It goes on to say that there where at least 32 persons on each of

the Enemy vessels, and awarded £320 tobe shared between the four

vessels.

So that makes an enemy Sailor worth about £5 ?.

Colin

[robwilliams]

I have the medals of an RNR sailor who served on an AMC and was present at the sinking of the SMS Dresden, he got prize money for that, 16/1 to be exact. But his record appears to show that he continued to receive further payments after the war and received a further total of £33/15/-.

Rob

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Rob

That was a considerable amount of money. It would have been a combination of the AMC and naval prize funds.

[1RGLI]

Plenty of discriptions in the London Gazette if you select WW1 and put exact phrase as PRIZE MONEY

[Signals]

Hi All,

Prize Money. I have been looking into this recently. It was certainly active in WW1. It was 5 pounds per enemy sailor killed, also known as blood money. The one i specifically was looking into was probabily the most profitable example i know of in WW1. In October 1915 the British submarine E8 torpedoed and sank the German cruiser Prinz Adalbert in the Baltic. She lost 600 odd crew. So at 5 pounds x 600, this was shared with E8's 30 British crew and 3 Russian crew, this earned them a very tidy amount. Her commander Lt Cdr Francis Goodhart had to set up a trust fund to distribut the money, he whent through HMS Maidstones agents Holts. This was a very slow process and the amount of 3000 pounds was announced for E8's crew in late 1916. In fact when Goodhart was killed on the new sub K13 in January 1917 he was still waiting on the money but had increase his debt in anticipation of the pendng sum. This of course was an attraction for being on submarines, small crew capable of sinking a ship with a possible crew of 1000 adds up to a lot of money.

While looking E8's crew also recieved money for the German losses at Heligoland Bight in 1914, so it would seem all vessels present at an engagement look as though they made a claim. The submarines E19 and E9 also made claims for the merchant vessels that sank in the Baltic even with no loss of life, so it was obviously not restricted to enemy crews killed.

On the England National Archive site, punch in Prize Bounties and see what they come up with, as they still have many court documents dealing with this. I looked up PRIZE BOUNTIES SUBMARINES to find E8's. Unfortunately i was hoping to find a list of individuals who received the money, proving if the chap in question was actually on the submarine when the event occurred. There is no list, just details of the court case. If you pull a crew mans papers from the national archive site it will not have these details either. The papers that do have this information are the actual papers carried by the rating himself, but they can be hard to find unless you know a relative with them.

Hope this is of interest,

Darren.

[Toms girl]

I have notes of the following:-

paid money for the destruction of German sub 11.3.18 11/4d

paid from prize fund £2.00 16.6.1918

several more in 22 and 23

regards Margarette

[milford_lass]

e name='Margarette' date='Jan 25 2008, 12:44 PM' post='845982']

I have notes of the following:-

paid money for the destruction of German sub 11.3.18 11/4d

paid from prize fund £2.00 16.6.1918

several more in 22 and 23

regards Margarette

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my Great Uncle Ernest left his Prize Money to his Grandfather and adopted mother, they both received in 2/11/1920, £6 : 5s /d he joined 11/8/1914 and died 20/8/1917

shirl