tracing a possible submariner

[Margaret9]

is it possible that AB JAMES LAWRENCE CZ 8763 served in submarines? his record lists him as serving in or on VICRORY VI, DOLPHIN, and MAIDSTONE. are these places connected with submarines in WW1?

he served in the CLYDE RNVR Division from the age of 19 until the end of the war. he was born in Peterhead (N E Scotland)

ta for any info

margaret

[perce620]

Hi Margret

Dolphin was the submariners traing unit and Maidstone was a depot ship if I remember rightly

Cheers

Perce

[Margaret9]

hi,

where was 'dolphin' and wat is a 'depot ship'? sorry i know nothing.........well not about this anyhow

ta

margaret

[Jarvis]

Haven't found a 'hit' on your request yet but this might be useful (eventually)

http://www.royalnavaldivision.co.uk/rnvr.htm

[Margaret9]

thanks for that, so what went on at Crystal Palace? would that be some sort of training?

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Dolphin submarine school & depot ship for 2nd Flotilla (and 6th Flotilla 1918-19), based at Gosport.

Maidstone submarine depot ship for 8th & 9th Flotillas, based at Harwich.

Victory VI depot for the Royal Naval Division.

[perce620]

Hi margret

Dolphin is in Gosport and was the submariners trainng base until 1994 and a depot ship was a ship that acted as a mother ship for submarines

The fifteenth Dolphin was a screw sloop launched in 1882. She served as a submarine depot ship in World War I. She foundered in 1925 but was beached and used as a school ship. She was broken up in 1977.

Cheers

Perce

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Sorry I took so long referencing it.

Crystal Palace was the main depot: for training and admin.

[Margaret9]

im sorry for all the questions............

do you think he would have been actually in the submarines or someone who fixed and serviced them? how could i find out....i have his record but its just a heap of numbers and unreadable scrawls. apart from that he had a 37in chest, was 5ft 7in high, brown hair , grey eyes and a 'fresh' complextion.

ta for your patience (had to look at map for gosport.....)

[Jarvis]

There is already a link with Dolphin here on this forum. Might be interesting to read what has already been researched. it may not fit your question to a 'T' but may well begin your researching with some good background.

 

I'll continue digging around a bit - especially as Big Brother is on the Tv in the background. I may continue digging around for some time.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Is there anything written in brackets after the other names, such as (E5). With depot ships, the ship a man actually served on usually appears in brackets after the depot ship's name. If not then he worked at the depot.

[Jarvis]

I have 'trawled' up a brief history of one fellow who has two links with ships you have mentioned. Obviously not connected directly to your question but showing locations and dates close to the subject.

Frederick Knight served in HMS RUSSELL until 23rd May 1915 when he was drafted to HMS Dolphin. A draft to the Submarine Depot Ship HMS VULCAN ‘for Submarines’ followed on 27th May 1915.

On 22nd Jun 1916 he was drafted to the Submarine Depot Ship HMS ARROGANT (4th Submarine Flotilla) at Dover ‘for Submarines’. Frederick Knight passed his ‘Professional Examination for Torpedo Gunners Mate’ on 24th Jan 1917 and he was then drafted to HMS MAIDSTONE (9th Submarine Flotilla) at Harwich ‘for Submarines’ on 11th Feb 1917.

Flotillas 1 to 7 were employed on coastal patrol work, and were largely used for training purposes. Flotillas 8 to 13 were known as the Overseas Flotillas. The 12th and 13th Flotillas were to be formed of K-class submarines when these became available. They were to be stationed at Scapa and Rosyth, as required by the Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Fleet, and, as they were to be considered as essential units of the Grand Fleet, were not to be permanently attached to any one base.

[Margaret9]

just had a look at the RN submarine museum web page ....really good. (put on list of places to visit!)

after the MAIDSTONE entry it has (6? 41) and then (?21) 27th july 1918 - 30th sept 1918 and 1st oct- 31st dec1918 respectively.

did they all get paid 'something' after the war then......its stamped with 'paid war gratuity'

i had no idea they had submarines in WW1 they must have been, well, cramped, crude and dangerous, how many men would have been in one?

margaret

[Margaret9]

i have his medals, would be great to return them to his family

[per ardua per mare per terram]

could you post a scan of the service record, that might help?

Here's one of the posts where war gratuties have been discussed before

 

 

[Margaret9]

apologies for asking questions already asked before.......

hopefully scan image is readable

[Margaret9]

[sigh] try again..........

it goes through the motions but doesnt appear to attach.......

margaret

[per ardua per mare per terram]

There is so much information to take in! It's only by asking that you will find out.

If it won't all attach maybe you can clip parts and reduce the size.

[sadsac]

Hello Magaret - Sadsac here with answers to your question ;

LAWRENCE JAMES AB ST CLYDE Z 8763 RNVR NE RNVR NE 170

TC 170917 DOLPHIN VERNON

SC 180228 DOLPHIN C21

E41 180412 MAIDSTONE

NO2 181114 SPECIAL SERVICE

U162 190113 THAMES

ADDL 190124 DOLPHIN

DEMOBILISED 190206

PAY ADDRESS 5 STANMORE PLACE, LEVEN, FIFESHIRE.

C S EXPIRES HOSTILITIES ONLY SENIOR IN RATING 070817

Regards Dennis

[sadsac]

Jarvis - this is `possibly' `your man' ;

KNIGHT FREDERICK ROBERT LS TGM C/ 235787 RN 220215

150523 DOLPHIN VULCAN ARROGANT MAIDSTONE

C22 170701 LUCIA

171014 HEBE DOLPHIN

180206 HOSP

VERNON 180827 TGM

ADDL 181004 DOLPHIN

E27 181105 LUCIA

DEMOBILISED 190408

PORTSMOUTH R & R 13440

PAY ADDRESS 54 CARDIFF RD., WATFORD, HERTS.

C S EXPIRES 030319 SENIOR IN RATING 030209 AB

Regards Sadsac

[submarine]

Margaret

C21 was a Submarine Launched 26/09/ 1908 and Scrapped Dec 1921

and would have been a Coastal Submarine. The crew was 2 Officers and

14 O/Ranks.

E41 was a mine laying Submarine .Launched 26/07/1915 and Scrapped

Sept 1922 and was an overseas Submarine . The Crew was 3 Officers and

27 O/Ranks

ADDL stands for Additional Crew

Hope this Helps.

Colin

Have you tried an E/Mail to the Musuem?

[Margaret9]

wow, thanks for all the input and information!

where did you get it from?

when you say 'special service' what would that be?

yes i will be emailing the museum at gosport, you never know, would be great to see some photos if possible(where they in the habit of taking photos of subs and serving personnel then?)

thankyou again, a fascinating journey

margaret

[per ardua per mare per terram]

You might also be interested in:

'HMS E41

15 August 1916

Sank off Harwich after collision with HMS E4

Whilst carrying out anti submarine exercises in the North Sea, HMS E41 acting as a target, had begun a surface passage of 12 knots when HMS E4’s periscope appeared 50 yards off her starboard bow, on a collision course. E41 stopped her engines but not before E4 collided forward of the bridge. E41 began to take in water through the forward battery compartment and began to sink by the bow. In less than two minutes the conning tower was under the water. HMS Firdrake, who had been monitoring the exercise, took less than two minutes to reach the scene of the collision to pick up survivors. There were no survivors from E4. Both submarines were eventually located, salvaged and returned to service.'

http://www.rnsubmus.co.uk/general/losses.htm#e41

[per ardua per mare per terram]

J.J. Colledge 'Ships of the Royal Navy' ISBN 1-85367-566-0 gives details of ships.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/d+eclass.htm#E%2041

Has a crew photo of E41 in 1917. There were numerous subs in the 'C' and 'E' classes, so even if there are not specific photos of those subs there are of sister ships.

C class links http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/c_class1.htm#C%2022

and http://www.submariners.co.uk/Boats/DB/inde...k=20&page=6