Gallipoli Evacuations - views

[bob lembke]

Bill has cast useful light on this question. I read Liman von Sanders first about 4-5 years ago, Kannengiesser some time later. As I said, I do not have the latter's book, and I am flying on my memory from say 4 years ago, on a matter not of central interest to me. So my memory of what I think I read in Kannengiesser is stronger than von Sanders.

All I have read seem to have corroborated that the Turks/Germans did not have advance knowledge of the withdrawal, but did begin to comprehend what was going on as the last stage of the withdrawal was executed. Von Sanders underlines the excellence of the preparations by stating the difficulties that the mines, booby-traps, etc. caused the advancing Turkish troops. As I stated, my memory of what Kannengiesser said was that there was difficulty in getting the Turkish troops forward quickly. These two views of why the Turkish troops did not advance more quickly are not necessarily contradictory.

While the Allied accounts I have read stressed the great deal of material that was destroyed, the Turkish/German sources (as Liman von Sanders above) stressed the great deal of useful material that was found. One account that I read said that it took two years to collect, organize, and move out the captured material. Of course the more material that was destroyed, the greater the chance that the Turks/Germans would figure out what was going on.

I had asked if anyone knew of other primary sources on the Turkish/German side in any language other than Turkish. One that I remember that I found (not a primary source, but an official history) was a French discussion of the campaign that I found useful. As I said, my computer is packed in for the moment and I cannot dig out a precise citation. It was not one of the standard French official histories.

I regret that my father did not tell me more of his experiences there, but I do have, I believe, several proofs that he was there (I tend to question everything), including something that my grand-father stated in one of his letters from 1915 which I have, responding to what must have been a letter from Gallipoli. He stated that the conditions where he was, in Russia, was also very unhealthy. As it turned out, they both got malaria in 1915; my grand-father in Russia, my father in Turkey. Another source mentioned the very heavy losses of the volunteer Pionier company to disease; my father mentioned the terrible water that was black, as it had been carried for days on camels in goat-skins; he said that the Europeans could only drink it when it had been laced with a good deal of oil of peppermint. Kannengiesser, in contrast, said that one of the two ample supplies that the Turks had was lots of good water, as well as sufficient rifle ammunition.

Bob Lembke

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Mates

Merry Christmas to you all.

I am especially looking forward to Boxing Day - a day of records.

4-0

And

700 ++

Cheers

Bill

First the 700 ++

Now the 4-0

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

& 4-0

[MartinWills]

Hans Kannengiesser Pasha - The Campaign in Gallipoli was published in English by Hutchinson's in 1927 but it pretty difficult to find.

There is a view that the Turks has a tradition of allowing an enemy to slip away (retreat or evacuation) and it is possible that this view influenced what happened at the end of the Gallipoli Campaign. In other words they may have realised but allowed the evacuation to completed relatively unhindered.

Who knows?

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Martin

G'day mate

Thanks for the reference. I might have a look for it next week when everything is open again. When I find the passages on the evacuation, I'll put them online.

Cheers

Bill

[Bryn]

Liman von Sanders noted:

"How sudden the order for withdrawal must have come to the last troops on the peninsula appears from the fact that in some tents freshly served food stood on the tables."

Had von Sanders actually known about the evacuation, he would hardly have written such a passage in which he implies the evacuation came as a surprise even to the allies.