Soldier's In Famous Somme Film/photo

[laosdave]

Geoffrey Malins wrote a book about his experiences in the war. In it, he describes the filming of the particular scene in question.

I can really recommend the book.

It is called "How I filmed the War", printed - I believe - in the early 1920-ies.

Some of the material that Malins and John McDowell took but did not use for the Somme film, was used in the BBC production "The Great War".

There was a second film, called "The Battle of the Ancre" I think, another film worth watching.

David

[cliveslocombe]

Shell after shell crashed in the middle of them,

leaving ghastly gaps, but other men quickly filled

them up, passing through the smoke, and over the

bodies of their comrades, as if there were no such

thing as a shell in all the world. Another spool ran

out, making the fourth since the attack started.

I gave it in charge of my man, with the same instructions

as before. I loaded again, and had just started

exposing. Something attracted my attention on the

extreme left. What it was I don't know. I ceased

turning, but still holding the handle, I veered round

the front of my camera. The next moment, with a

shriek and a flash, a shell fell and exploded before

I had time to take shelter. It was only a few feet

away. What happened after I hardly know. There

was the grinding crash of a bursting shell; something

struck my tripod, the whole thing, camera and

all, was flung against me. I clutched it and staggered

back, holding it in my arms. I dragged it into a

shrapnel-proof shelter, sat down and looked for the

damage. A piece of the shell had struck the tripod

and cut the legs clean in half, on one side, carrying

about six inches of it away. The camera, thank

heaven, was untouched.

Calling my man, we hastily found some pieces of

wood, old telephone wire and string, and within an

hour had improvised legs, rigid enough to continue

taking scenes.

I again set up my camera. Our gun-fire was still

terrible, but the Germans had shortened their range

and were evidently putting a barrage on our

men, who had presumably reached the enemy's

front trenches. Nobody knew anything definitely.

Wounded men began to arrive. There was a rush

for news.

' How are things going ? " we asked.

' We have taken their first and second line," said

one.

An officer passed on a stretcher.

" How are things going ? '

" God knows," he said. " I believe we have got

through their first line and part of the village, but

don't know whether we shall be able to hold out; we

have been thinned shockingly."

' Have you been successful? " he asked me.

" Yes, I've got the whole of the attack."

' Good man," he said.

First one rumour then another came through.

There was nothing definite. The fighting over

there was furious. I filmed various scenes of

our wounded coming in over the parapet; then

through the trenches. Lines of them were awaiting

attention.

Scenes crowded upon me. Wounded and more

wounded ; men who a few hours before had leaped

over the parapet full of life and vigour were now

dribbling back. Some of them shattered and broken

for life. But it was one of the most glorious charges

ever made in the history of the world. These men

had done their bit.

" Hullo," I said to one passing through on a

stretcher, " got a ' blighty ' ? '

" Yes, sir," he said ; " rather sure Blighty for

me."

" And for me too," said another lad lying with him

waiting attention, " I shan't be able to play footer

any more. Look ! ' I followed the direction of his

finger, and could see through the rough bandages

that his foot had been taken completely off. Yet he

was still cheerful, and smoking.

A great many asked me as they came through :

" Was I in the picture, sir ? ' I had to say "

yes

'

to them all, which pleased them immensely.

Still no definite news. The heavy firing continued.

I noticed several of our wounded men lying

in shell-holes in " No Man's Land." They were

calling for assistance. Every time a Red Cross man

attempted to get near them, a hidden German

machine-gun fired. Several were killed whilst trying

to bring in the wounded. The cries of one poor

fellow attracted the attention of a trench-mortar

man. He asked for a volunteer to go with him, and

bring the poor fellow in. A man stepped forward,

and together they climbed the parapet, and threaded

their way through the barbed wire very slowly.

Nearer and nearer they crept. We stood watching

with bated breath. Would they reach him ? Yes.

At last ! Then hastily binding up the injured man's

wounds they picked him up between them, and

with a run made for our parapet. The swine of a

German blazed away at them with his machine-

gun. But marvellous to relate neither of them were

touched.

I filmed the rescue from the start to the finish,

until they passed me in the trench, a mas

perspiration. Upon the back of one was the unconscious

man he had rescued, but twenty minutes

after these two had gone through hell to rescue him,

the poor fellow died.

During the day those two men rescued twenty

men in this fashion under heavy fire.

An interesting read from Malins account of the events, if a shell expolded close enough to take the legs off his tripod I think Mr Malins would have been a little more than stunned.

The interesting fact to me is that his camera was out of action for up to an hour while he fixed the tripod, this could be the reason why he was said to have 'staged' scenes after the action was over, to reproduce the ones he missed during the battle. Accuse me of using this evidence to fit my theory if you like, but the basis of my thinking I am related to the Rescuer is that my Grandmother identified him when she first saw the film (early 1960's I think) and went on to relate a story told by him of how he took part in a staged filming of him carrying a wounded soldier out of a trench, he said there were two takes of the 'scene' from different angles, both of which used to be shown back then, but I have only ever seen one.

For those of you who like facts, he was in the Duke of Wellington's Regiment, (3/5th ? I'd have to ask Dad) which was part of the 49th Division I believe, held in reserve on 1/7/16, behind the 29th Division from which the apparent 'rescued' came. So he was in the right location..................................................

[Petroc]

There will never be a difinitive answer even with facial recognition software - so why not let it lie?

I am more intrigued as to what time of day the film was shot and this event captured. What was an apparently fit man doing out of the line?

Mick

Mick,

I kind of agree with your comment about it being unlikely that there will ever be a firm identification, but qualify it with the phrase'kind of agree'...maybe it WILL be possible at some point in the future to do so, who knows? (Bring back 'Tomorrow's World' on BBC TV!!)

But, though I respect your knowledge and opinions, I can't agree with your sentiment as articulated by your comment 'why not let it lie?'

The thread thus far has been devoted to, or has developed into, the question as to who this individual soldier is or was. It is clear from Forum members' interest in the 1916 Somme fighting that this is a pertinent and relevant question that demands at least some kind of positive input with regard to the subject in hand; if anyone can put a name to the soldier in this iconic image it does not detract from the sufferings and sacrifices endured by numerous nations on the Somme, nor does it remove the solemnity of any visit by any interested person or group to the old battlefields; we can Let Them Lie, but should always be able to discuss why we shouldn't let 'the subject lie'

Regards,

Andy

[Vista52]

Solve this, then on to IWM photo Q1.....1/7/1916 Royal Irish Rifles in a Communication Trench.

[sw63]

Clive,

One name for you is William Holland (1894 - 1935) Sapper, Royal Engineers attached to the 56th Division on 1st July. Sorry I can't provide a photo (scanner's down), but there was an article about him being the man in the film which ran in some British national newspapers in 1996 or 1997. However, there may be some doubt about him actually being in theatre on 1st July.

Simon

[cliveslocombe]

Simon, I saw the William Holland story and they showed he was not in France at the time of the filming. A photo of him would still be useful, if only to use the software to confirm it wasn't him.

[cliveslocombe]

I've just been reading the Fraser book 'Ghosts on the Somme' and something just fell into place.

The rescued soldier shown in the photo on page 96 being carried by 'cardigan man' is as I thought, the same chap being carried by 'shirt sleeve man' on page 98, shot 31.2, one page 99 the book goes on to say that shot 31.3 , taken some time later, after Malins had repositioned his camera, shows two men carrying the same casualty and moving towards the camera.

The significance of this sequence of filming to me is that it compares very well to the account related to my Grandmother by my Grandfather posted above. He said there were two takes, I assumed this meant he did the 'carry' twice, but it would seem he meant that Malins took two sequences of the rescued soldier being taken to the rear, one of him and one of the stretcher bearers.

Any more photos before I go to see Mr Jonas?

[Anthony Gorst]

Malns' book here

http://www.archive.org/details/ifilmedwar00maliuoft

[Guest stephenweston]

The soldier may be my grandfather 72703 Alfred George Weston DCM.

A family friend remembers my grandfather reminiscing about WW1 and one day said 'You may see me one day; I was filmed carrying a wounded man'. The family friend is adamant that it is my grandfather. Photos of my father at a similar age show a remarkable resemblance to the soldier in question.

MY grandfather was in the 65th Battery, 28th Army Brigade RFA (Weedon) in 1919. How do I find out where he served during the war with aim of placing him near the filming?

Many thanks

Steve

[Guest stephenweston]

Re Ski's posting in 2004. My grandfathers DCM was awarded in 1919

'During the period under review, 25th February - 17th September 1918, he consistently distinguished himself by his utter regard of danger. He has volunteered for every dangerous piece of work, and by his gallantry and personal disregard of danger, undoubtedly inspired the men of the battery' (London Gazette 3rd Sept 1919)

Steve

[TinaHughes]

This is a real long shot. There is a video that is frequently shown on programmes about WW1, there is a clip of a soldier carrying another soldier in the trenches, the soldier who is carrying looks straight into the camera lens, my Mum is convinced it is her father, we have paused the clip and compared it to a photograph taken of my Grandad in his uniform during WW1.

We would like to try to find out where the film was taken.

We have a copy of a record showing that he was awarded a Gallant Conduct Award on 21/3/18 in Bussu, he was in the 16th Division, his number was 43180.

I'd dearly love to be able to find out if this could have been my Grandad. Would really appreciate any help. Thanks

[TEW]

Somewhere I heard/read a statistic that the IWM have about 50 identifications of the carrying man. All are 100% accurate and positively identify him as X according to X's grandchildren, children, nephews etc.

When hi-tech facial recognition systems identify the man as X when X was still in the UK is another slight hiccup.

Last year in Netley Chapel someone stuck their hand up and claimed the carrying man had been IDd as a DevonShire Regt. man and a book was in the offing.

But, Tina how about giving us the man's name and any other details you have, do you have any photos of him at any age??

If any group is going to ID the man I suggest it had better be the GWF!!!!

TEW

[Canadian J]

If any group is going to ID the man I suggest it had better be the GWF!!!!

TEW

Agreed! And hardly a group more likely and qualified!

[ss002d6252]

It would be nice if we could solve the mystery as to who it was and the exact circumstances behind the image.

Craig

[TinaHughes]

Many thanks for all of your responses, it would be lovely to find out one way or the other whether it is my Grandad. Here is a little more information. His name was Henry George Dixon, DOB 6.1 1894.

He was born in Whitechapel, London.

He married on25.12.1915 and we think the photo of the 2 people is possibly on his wedding day.

He enlisted on September 2nd 1915 for RH & RFA (Woolwich)

His regimental number was 43180

His medical category was "a"

We have a certificate of "Transfer to Reserve" on Demobilisation dated March 29th 1919

He was a driver in the 16th Division, (16th Div Amm Column)

He was awarded a Galant Conduct award in the Field of Bussu on 21st March 1918

I have added 3 photos.

Thank you again for your help, any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Tina

[Stoppage Drill]

and the exact circumstances behind the image.

Craig

It is a much discussed image, but regardless of who the man is, I think it is certain that it is one of Malins' staged scenes.

[IPT]

For reference.

[ss002d6252]

It is a much discussed image, but regardless of who the man is, I think it is certain that it is one of Malins' staged scenes.

I had to come towards that conclusion as well from the previous discussions.

Craig

[TEW]

As has been seen with the Netley film of shell shock patients one needs to be careful of chosen words that described a re-enactment or a completely mocked up 'staged' Scene.

The footage of men going over the top and then some lying in nomansland making themselves more comfy is staged. Is it being suggested that perhaps the man being carried is not actually wounded and the whole scene is faked as per the Netley footage is supposed to be faked by some.

Malins says he had to Re-stage the scene and shoot it more than once but does that mean the whole thing is a sham or he just asked those involved to do it again.

Both men in that scene would have to be good actors if the whole thing is a fake.

TEW

[Stoppage Drill]

The film clip has been discussed at some length before, and I don't want to repeat points.

The consensus of informed opinion is that it is staged.

[TEW]

Tina,

There is certainly a likeness, especially in the 2nd photo. He looks much younger in the 1st photo dated Dec 1915 six months or so before the film footage.

I have looked through the 16th Div Ammunition Column diaries and they were based at Verquin on 1/7/16, the diary does not imply any involvment with the first day of the somme. Not even a mention of a shell being fired.

I'm still perplexed by your statement:

He was awarded a Galant Conduct award in the Field of Bussu on 21st March 1918

I'm not sure what is meant by 'Galant Conduct award' but I can say they were in Bussu from 2/3/1918 until 22/3/1918.

I can't find anything for him in The London Gazette.

I will read the diaries more carefully for any mention of him. It does sound like you have parts of a service record for him but I can't find an online record for him.

TEW

[TEW]

The film clip has been discussed at some length before, and I don't want to repeat points.

The consensus of informed opinion is that it is staged.

I've searched the forum and cannot find much that says this section of footage is staged. Except a post by yourself Sept 2013 in which you quote Robertshaw:

He said, if memory serves me correctly, that the soldier carrying the wounded man remains unidentified, that the nonchalant postures of the men in the background suggest that the scene may have been staged.

Watching the 'Battle Of The Somme - The True Story - Part 3 of 8' with Robertshaw and Robert Smither (IWM). Smither quite plainly says that the authenticity of this section of footage has been brought into question but his belief is that it is not staged, faked or posed. Robertshaw concurs with Smither's view. If it was staged then one would expect a happy ending.

The man carrying the wounded man in that section of film was confused with Driver Tom Spencer, it was Spencer that did the rescuing filmed by Malins and was photographed carrying the SAME wounded man.

Tom Spencer

The other man was just 'another man' who happened to be nearby and took over the carrying of the wounded man just in time to walk into Malins' shot and become the icon.

Another post suggests that Tom Spencer is in the rear of the same section of footage as the iconic carrying man.

They then go on to use facial recognition software/experts which suggests a high probability the man is William Holland, unfortunately his service record says he didn't go to France until Feb 1917.

TEW

[TinaHughes]

Is there a way I can have the photo of my Grandad and the picture checked with digital facial recognition.?

[TinaHughes]

Tina,

There is certainly a likeness, especially in the 2nd photo. He looks much younger in the 1st photo dated Dec 1915 six months or so before the film footage.

I have looked through the 16th Div Ammunition Column diaries and they were based at Verquin on 1/7/16, the diary does not imply any involvment with the first day of the somme. Not even a mention of a shell being fired.

I'm still perplexed by your statement:

He was awarded a Galant Conduct award in the Field of Bussu on 21st March 1918

I'm not sure what is meant by 'Galant Conduct award' but I can say they were in Bussu from 2/3/1918 until 22/3/1918.

I can't find anything for him in The London Gazette.

I will read the diaries more carefully for any mention of him. It does sound like you have parts of a service record for him but I can't find an online record for him.

TEW

I wonder if his record was destroyed in WW2, I have been told that a fire destroyed a lot of records. We don't know what the Galant Conduct was, my Grandad wouldn't talk about the war.

[ss002d6252]

Is there a way I can have the photo of my Grandad and the picture checked with digital facial recognition.?

I believe that's been done before with the picture and identified other men so it may not achieve anything conclusive.

Craig