Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC)

[Guest]

I have access to the service records of all the 85,000 men who served in this force from 1836 till its disbandenment in 1922.

Of particular note to the forum is the 752 men who served with the colors during the Great War of which 167 were KIA.

I will be more than happy to do look ups for any of the Pals.

Stephen

Thank you for your offer. Would you be able to check Harry L. Neligan, who I believe was a District Inspector, RIC, just before the War (I don't think he was in the military during the war, however). Thanks again.--Bob Emery

[isadore]

Stephen, could you have a look for a Constable McAlister served Enfield Co Meath I believe he was the forst RIC officer in Meath to enlist in the army.

Also a Constable Banahan, not sure where he served

Thanks

Isadore

[Guest Sparks1954]

Hi, Stephenh,

I don't know if you still have access to the service records of the men served in this force. But I am hoping you can help me.

There were a couple of family members in the RIC.

Thomas Murtagh - born 1856 and joined in 1881.

his son, Wm. James Murtagh - born 1898 and joined in 1917.

Is there any way to get information on these men?

Thank you,

Mary

I have access to the service records of all the 85,000 men who served in this force from 1836 till its disbandenment in 1922.

Of particular note to the forum is the 752 men who served with the colors during the Great War of which 167 were KIA.

I will be more than happy to do look ups for any of the Pals.

Stephen

[Malcolm Harvey]

I have access to the service records of all the 85,000 men who served in this force from 1836 till its disbandenment in 1922.

Of particular note to the forum is the 752 men who served with the colors during the Great War of which 167 were KIA.

I will be more than happy to do look ups for any of the Pals.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

If your kind offer is still open I would appreciate a lookup to see if my dad, Herbert Leslie Harvey from Norfolk, was a member of the RIC.

I made a post last week trying to id his regiment and several pals opted for the RIC as most likely. If true, I thought RIC records might lead me back to WW1 service. The link to my post is http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=65288

Many thanks.

Malcolm.

[toofatfortakeoff]

Hello mate im looking at Lindsay Briff who had first War service and was based at Tipperary (Area 3rd Tipp bgde) and McGuire or Maguire. Were these killed in action? Thanks a lot Sean

[N Flynn]

Stephen,

Not wishing to inundate you with requests (but I'm going to )

could you see if you can find any information on my grandfather - Peter (or Paul...) Flynn. All I know for sure is that he was part of a guard detachment for Queen Victoria (and got a medal for it as well...). Unfortunately I don't know any dates - but he did serve in the war.

Many, many thanks

Nick

[mgbarrett1]

would appreciate if could try and find out anything about Richard Copley served in Castlecomer co kilkenny Circa 1870 i have a copy of his pension book starts about 1892

Help Martin

I have access to the service records of all the 85,000 men who served in this force from 1836 till its disbandenment in 1922.

Of particular note to the forum is the 752 men who served with the colors during the Great War of which 167 were KIA.

I will be more than happy to do look ups for any of the Pals.

Stephen

[Guest indaloman2002]

Hi Stephen

I am trying to find details of my GG/father I know he served in the Irish Constabulary. His name was John Stokes and he was serving when my g/mother was born 30/10/1880. His claim to fame is that family legend says that he transfered to Met Police sometime after the birth of granma and took the force to the Houses of Parliament because they would not accept his Irish service for pension purposes and he won! I wonder if you can track him down for me please as I am stuck with the family tree

Regards

[Guest jherges]

I have access to the service records of all the 85,000 men who served in this force from 1836 till its disbandenment in 1922.

Of particular note to the forum is the 752 men who served with the colors during the Great War of which 167 were KIA.

I will be more than happy to do look ups for any of the Pals.

Stephen

Hi Stephen would you be kind and do a look up for me sorry i have very little info .I'm looking for an M Quinn .He was MATHEW/MATTHEW but may have just used M .I have lots of possible mic's .He could have been in the Royal Irish Rifles,the RFA or the RGA in WW1. Thanks JEANETTE

[kildaremark]

Chris,

Your query of September on WR Murphy was never answered ... until now- the article below is from History Ireland magazine. The original includes photos-

Mark

Karl Murphy outlines the career of his grandfather in the British army, the Dublin Metropolitan Police and the Garda Síochána.

William Richard Murphy was born in County Wexford in 1890 but was orphaned at an early age and brought up in Belfast by an elder cousin. He graduated in education in Dublin and returned to Belfast to teach on the Falls Road. When the First World War broke out he joined the British army as an officer cadet through Queen’s University officer training college and gained his commission in April 1915. He was, at his own request, posted to the 1st battalion South Staffordshire regiment. He first saw action in the closing stages of the battle of Loos in October 1915. However, barring brief spells in the trenches and despite being wounded by shellfire, he did not see serious action until 1 July 1916, the first day of the battle of the Somme. In the assault Murphy was given the task of leading the bombing company to clear the fortified houses in the village of Mametz. Of the battalion’s 21 officers who had gone over the top that morning, by the end of the day six were dead and a further five were wounded, though Murphy survived unscathed.

Murphy was to see many more battles on the Western Front in 1916, such as High Wood and Delville Wood (a particularly hideous affair) in late August, then later in the year on the Douve River and at Beaumont Hamel. In 1917 he was promoted to captain and was awarded the Military Cross for service in the Somme battles. During 1917 he was again in action at Bullcourt in April and then at the third battle of Ypres, another bloody fiasco in which the battalion took heavy casualties. The year 1918 saw Murphy serving in Italy with his battalion, and in June he was promoted from major to lieutenant colonel to become the commanding officer of the 1st battalion South Staffordshire regiment. This was a singular honour for a young Catholic Irishman to be given: the command of a battalion of mostly English soldiers.

On 27 October the British 10th Army took part in the final offensive of the war in Italy, the battle of Vittoro Veneto. This involved a direct assault across the Piave, a wide, fast-flowing river in Venetia across which the Austro-Hungarian army was entrenched. Murphy’s battalion was one of those tasked with crossing over and taking the far bank by direct assault. Looking at the staff plan he was given to follow, he realised that it would never work. In liaison with the commanding officer of the lead battalion he tweaked the plan so that both battalions would launch their assault at the same time, thus maximising their impact. This tactic paid off and his battalion went on to capture a number of villages and eventually took prisoner over 2,800 officers and men plus much weaponry. That was his last battle of the war. For his actions in this battle Murphy was awarded the Distinguished Service Order, his citation stating that:

‘He handled his battalion with conspicuous gallantry and skill . . . Throughout the operations he set his men a splendid example of fearlessness and dash, which materially helped to ensure the great success achieved.’

In 1919 Murphy resigned from the British army and returned to Ireland, where he took up a position of schools inspector based in Derry. On the outbreak of civil war in the South he was head-hunted by Michael Collins to take up a position in the new Free State Army. He was given command of troops under the overall direction of Eoin O’Duffy and organised the attacks on Republican positions in and around Bruree and Kilmallock, Co. Limerick, during September 1922. After the withdrawal of the Republican forces from there and following the landings in Kerry, he was dispatched to Tralee as the commanding officer of the Free State Army in County Kerry, a position he held from late September until early January 1923. A difficult post, he did the best he could to restore order without being too harsh. He spared the lives of four IRA men sentenced to death just before he left Kerry for the last time. He was then transferred to Dublin to the operations section, but when his orders were not carried out he expressed a wish to resign. To avoid controversy he was instead put in charge of writing training manuals, which was obviously a dead-end position.

However, with the ending of the civil war another opportunity came his way, as Kevin O’Higgins wanted someone reliable to take over the Dublin Metropolitan Police. Murphy was appointed chief commissioner in May 1923 and led the force until it was amalgamated with the Garda Síochána in 1925. The DMP were totally demoralised and he built up their confidence again under very difficult circumstances. He was also involved, with others, in the transformation of the various semi-secret police agencies then in existence into what was eventually to become the Special Branch of the Garda Síochána. This followed his suggestion to O’Higgins in 1924 for the establishment of a ‘Special Branch to deal with Bolshevik, Anarchist and Communist crime masquerading under political disguise’. His proudest moment, however, was in the closing months of his commissionership of the DMP, when he helped Frank Duff of the Legion of Mary to close down the last brothels in the notorious ‘Monto’ red light district of Dublin. Duff appealed directly to Murphy to ensure that the police ended this civic embarrassment once and for all.

In 1925 Murphy was appointed a deputy commissioner of the Garda Síochána under his old military comrade Eoin O’Duffy. He had a great deal of respect for O’Duffy and overall they had an excellent relationship but one that was by no means untarnished by petty disputes. He recalled that the general ‘had many virtues but some faults’. Murphy was also a friend of Kevin O’Higgins and was grief-stricken when he was assassinated in 1927. He had been in charge of O’Higgins’s security arrangements before the amalgamation of the two forces, and he ‘was conscious that if any man was going to be assassinated it would be Kevin’.

Over the years that followed Murphy was to hold many of the key positions within the police, but owing to the bitter legacy of the civil war he was never awarded the position of commissioner. However, during the Second World War de Valera asked him to organise an auxiliary force to back up the army and Garda. This force soon numbered over 65,000 men but in late 1940 it was split in two, with one section becoming the Local Defence Force (LDF), under army control, and the other the Local Security Force (LSF), remaining under Murphy’s command. However, the LSF was always the poor relation of the state’s security services and was disbanded at the war’s end without ceremony.

After the war Murphy was put in charge of ‘C’ (Crime) Branch and he published his Manual of criminal investigation, which remained in use for many years. He ended his police career back in charge of the Dublin Metropolitan Area. Throughout his career Murphy was known to all ranks as ‘the general’, though when he retired in 1955 he still held the same rank as the day he joined the force 30 years before!

Murphy was an active organiser of amateur boxing at both national and international level. He helped many aspiring boxers in the ranks of the Garda to pursue their interest in the sport, such as ‘Lugs’ Branigan, and he was, along with his wife and others, instrumental in having the National Stadium built.

Murphy’s career encompassed service to the state under different regimes. He appears to have made the transitions without any qualms, most probably because he put adherence to professional conduct before any political beliefs he may have held. He died in 1975 and was given a state funeral. He is buried in St Peter’s cemetery, Little Bray, Co. Dublin.

Karl Murphy is a local historian.

[DRUMGOR]

Hi STEPHEN

I WONDER COULD YOU PLEASE LOOK UP A SURNAME FOR ME, LYNESS FROM DRUMGOR LURGAN CO ARMAGH.

MANY THANKS.

DOUGLAS.

[Guest Pentony]

Hi Stephen,

Hoping you are still providing your generous service. My Granduncle, Patrick Neade, was mentioned by Philip Orr (Field of Bones, page 214) with two others, Poynton (Matthew) and Foley (?), as having obtained houses and some land as returning Gallipoli veterans, in Battstown, near Devlin County Westmeath in the Irish Republic. Orr indicated that all three had joined up in 1914, and that "one of the ex-servicemen had been a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary." I am interested in establishing whether my granduncle was in the RIC.

TOM

[Lt Colonel Gerald Smyth]

Hello

Iwas really interested in this post.

My grandfather I am sure his first name was Patrick (I only called him grandad !!!)

Costigan..

He was born in Carlow I believe.

I know he was at Ypers during the war, it "brutalised" him and left him with a "coldness". After what he had endured he had little sympathy for minor problems.

He joined the Garda sometime after his return and eventually held quite high office in Limerick before he retired.

That's very interesting, I always wondered how many RIC later went on to serve in the Garda (originally 127 went directly in followed by the entire DMP later). We're told it was 'many' but no one has ever been able to give me a concrete figure. I always thought most RIC officers were ex-Irish Guardsmen, both units requiring their recruits to be a certain height?