alliekiwi Posted 18 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2006 Okay, here's another pic. This one has the pouches, and the description says: Trooper E S Midgley with 3rd (Auckland) Regiment, Auckland Infantry Regiment cap badge, but New Zealand Mounted Rifles collar badges Auckland Infantry but confusing Mounted Rifles stuff Aaron, as a matter of interest, what unit did the person in your icon belong to? Because these pouch things are confusing me, and I thought your uncle was in the Auckland Infantry, with the 9th Hauraki... or is it of another relative? Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 18 July , 2006 Share Posted 18 July , 2006 Hmmm, the last Auckland Infantry chap appears to be wearing a collar dog on his hat. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 18 July , 2006 Share Posted 18 July , 2006 As an aside, I don't think the badge looks like QAMR. But I notice that the chap on the left has some very nice boots, with buckles, that look to be the Mtd Rifles issue. And is he perhaps wearing leather leggings as opposed to cloth putees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 18 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2006 Allie, Having reread Christine's entry above she does state Mackenzie, so that would point to soldier 25/790..... I reckon that proves it. cheers Aaron But Alexander of the 11/798 has next of kin living in Dannevirke... I think they must be one and the same person, and he changed regiment type and service number. I wonder if perhaps some people did that in the reorganisation of the the different units post-Gallipoli? The Mounted Rifles went to Palestine, didn't they? So perhaps Uncle Aleck was either transferred along wiht other people to make up the numbers or something, or he requested a transfer to the Rifle Brigade so that he could go to France with his brother? Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMacdonald Posted 18 July , 2006 Share Posted 18 July , 2006 Hi there again, The man on the right is wearing a NZ mounted rifles uniform, without question. The best give away is the ammunition pouch slung across his chest, although other units also wore this. I cannot quite make the badges out to be more precise, although the soldier on the left looks as he's wearing North Auckland Mounted Rifles badges. The picture was taken, probably, in 1916/17 as the uniform cut and belt suggest this, although the lemon squeezer suggest it may have been earlier. The man on the right is an infantry uniform, 3rd Auckland Company. The numbering system was quite simple. Initially units were recruited geographically and hence each number represented a certain unit, for instance: 12/ Auckland Infantry (see Jock's number) 13/ Auckalnd Mounted Rifles. 10/ Wellington Infantry 11/ Wellington Mounted Rifles This system was abandoned in 1916 and the generic five digit number adopted, the first of these men arriving just in time for the Somme offensive of 1916. They prefixed and generic numbers are generally a good cue as to when a soldier enlisted. Of the prefixed numbers, certain sequences were allocated to certain recruiting offices. From these, one can readily identify the actual office in which a soldier enlisted. For example, Nos 6/1 through 6/199, among others, were allocated to Christchurch central in August 1914. A soldier's service number was engraved around the rim of his medals, and on the back of a 1914/15 star. Hope that helps ANdy M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 18 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2006 Thanks, Andy. The fact he's with the Mounted Rifles presents no problems prior to Gallipoli (when the photo was taken), but does present problems afterwards as the Mounted Rifles didn't go to the Western Front as far as I can ascertain. Yet Uncle Aleck was supposedly close by when Uncle Jock was injured and died. Obviously this could not be the case if he was still in the Mounted Rifles, but if he'd switched to the Rifle Brigade, then it's possible. The family story goes that Aleck heard his brother was badly hit, but his superiors would not allow him to go and see him. I don't know if the story is apocryphal, although we could probably work out how likely it is by seeing where the Wellington Rifle Brigade were in relation to the 2/Auckland on February 21st and 22nd 1917. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 19 July , 2006 Share Posted 19 July , 2006 McKENZIE, Alexander Fraser Wounded, neck, severe WMR 16th Aug 1915 A McKenzie, Brinchley Farm, Mangatera, Dannevirke Auckland Weekly News http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:TbwrPg...=clnk&cd=12 WMR = Wellington Mtd Rifles!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 19 July , 2006 Share Posted 19 July , 2006 But where is Duncan's file? We have his number, but Archives NZ does not appear to have the file! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 19 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 July , 2006 Wow, thanks for that! I'd not found a thing online about Aleck! I wonder if Duncan changed to another unit as well, switching numbers as I'm guessing Aleck did? Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 19 July , 2006 Share Posted 19 July , 2006 Mckenzie burials at Mangatera cemetery, Dannevirke http://www.tararuadc.govt.nz/asp/cemeterie...lts.asp?menu=ce Could Duncan be Duncan Alexander Pringle McKenzie d 1946 aged 73 therefore born 1873 Surname MCKENZIE Given Name Duncan Alexander Pringle Category First Reserves Last NZ Address Hastings Occupation Salesman Recruiting District Hawkes Bay Surname MCKENZIE Given Name Duncan Alexander Pringle Category Second Reserves Last NZ Address Hastings Occupation Salesman Classification A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 19 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 July , 2006 I was looking through the McKenzies listed in the Dannevirke (Mangatera) cemetery the other day, and Duncan isn't amongst them, sorry. But I appreciate your looking! He ended up in Waipukurau, I think. He died in 1962 - three brothers died within six weeks of each other that year. Er, age-wise... I have Duncan being born in 1892, but that could be a little off, as they changed their ages slightly when they emigrated. (Aunty Kate found out late in life that she was actually a year older than she thought she was and was decidedly Not Amused) I note that every single Mackenzie I'm related to on that site is listed as 'McKenzie', yet I have photos showing 'Mackenzie' on their headstones! Will email the council and ask if they'll fix it. I'm not sure where Aleck is buried - I think somewhere near Napier. He died in 1950. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 19 July , 2006 Share Posted 19 July , 2006 who was the third brother? Jock/john died in the war Aleck in 1950 Duncan and James and ? in 1962 from your account. However none of them appear to have probate records for those years or slightly later. I have a list of all probates from Archives NZ. Are those dates correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 19 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 July , 2006 The youngest brother William - known as Bill - (the only one born in New Zealand - 1904) died in 1962 as well. I don't know the exact dates, but I've been told this by numerous family members, because they'd all just had a big family gathering at my Mum and Dad's wedding, and then ... boom... three of them are dead. There was also Simon, who didn't go to war, either, and who died in 1979. He's the only one I remember. This is going to sound dreadful, but I'd never even heard of Bill til about 5 weeks ago. I'd always thought Simon was the youngest, not second youngest. My mum listed them for me with names and dates of birth and who married who, ending with Bill. I blinked rather and said "Bill, who's Bill??" In all the family stories I'd been told, and photos I'd seen, I'd never heard mention of Bill. We actually have a film taken in 1926 of them on the farm in Dannevirke. They all parade out of the house in their full scottish costume and proceed to do the Highland fling on the lawn. Must ask mum if one of those is the elusive Bill. *writes note to self* Some of that same gear is going to be on display at Te Papa for a couple of years (on loan from the family), as they are doing a display of scottish immigrants to New Zealand. Not sure when the display is going is going up; it's in the 'collecting appropriate artefacts' stage at present, I think. I've not found Archives New Zealand to be a very good repository for wills/probates. In all the ones I've looked up, I've only come across those for one set of great grandparents - non-Mackenzie ones. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 20 July , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2006 Eureka! Oh my goodness. Just when I had it all sorted that Aleck was in the Wellington Mounted Rifles (11/798), and then - for some reason - switched to the Wellington Rifle Brigade, changing service numbers in the process (25/790), I get this from the famly book. (brackets are me talking) In 1914 he enlisted in the Wellington Mounted Rifles and fought at Gallipoli (Right, so we have the correct chap). He was injured five times during the war (Oops, I thought it was seven. No matter), and was returned to New Zealand as a result of serious injuries sustained at Chunuk Bair. (that would be the injuries Christine found mentioned above). Following his recovery he sailed for France with the Otago Infantry (what?? Where the heck did Otago come into this equation?) and was again sreiously wounded at Passchendale. He was hospitalised in England and was preparing to return to France when the Armistice was signed. During the Second World war he joined the Military reserve. *penny drops* Mention of the Second World War makes me think his service record must still be at Trentham, because they've still got all the files post-1920. Archives New Zealand only have the WW1 files, and that's why we can't find him listed there (11/798). Alexander Fraser Mackenzie/McKenzie of the Wellington Rifle Brigade (25/790) must just be some other poor sod with the same name. Now for Duncan it says: During World War One he joined the Wellington Mounted Rifles and served in Egypt and Mesopotamia where he contracted typhoid. Just goes to show you can't believe everything poeple tell you - I was told he went to France, but there's a slight geographic gap between France and Mesopotamia that isn't just alphabetical. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 5 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2006 Got my file from Trentham. They only sent the WW2 file, not the WW1 file to go with it. Name: Alexander MacKenzie (no middle name listed) Previously in the NZEF: yes (yes) Born: Scotland (yes) Year: 1889 (well, I thought 1888, and whilst it is technically possible for him to have been born in February 1889 and his brother in December of the same year, I'm still fairly certain he was born in 1888) Married: Agnes. (No. Not mine. Mine was married to an Iris. As was another Alexander Fraser Mackenzie.) Argh!! They sent me the wrong chap's file! Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 5 August , 2006 Share Posted 5 August , 2006 Allie, Have found another website which may help you solve the Alexander Mackenzie mystery. It is www.deepthought.hass.adfa.edu.au:8088/index.html This webiste is a database of the NZEF Nominal role, you know how you said earlier wouldnt it be easier if their was a list online of all NZers in he NZEF, like the roll of honour, well, this is it. Just my persoanl opinion, but I still think 25/790 is your man. Check out the webiste, look up the combinations of Mackenzies/Mckenzies, and you will see what I mean. cheers Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 5 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2006 Thanks, Aaron. Will check it out once I'm past the birthday party silly-season which is this weekend. Although I'm going to try to get to the Papakura genealogy meeting thing tomorrow. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 5 August , 2006 Share Posted 5 August , 2006 Aaron, as a matter of interest, what unit did the person in your icon belong to? Because these pouch things are confusing me, and I thought your uncle was in the Auckland Infantry, with the 9th Hauraki... or is it of another relative? Allie Allie, The gentlemen in my icon is my Great Grandfather, not my Great Uncle. My Great Grandfather was in the Royal Field Artillery in the 330th brigade RFA. He spent two years at the Western Front and was one of the lucky ones, he survived without a scratch on him. His division, the 66th, was decimated and completly wiped out in March of 1918 when the Germans launched their Micheal Spring Offensive. He fought through that and survived. I was 8 when he passed away and I have fond memories of him. The leather ammunition belts across the shoulder were standard issue for the artillery. cheers Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 7 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2006 Thanks for the explanation, Aaron. Would love to see a larger photo of him. I tried the site you mentioned, but cannot do a search as I need to log in. Also, it appears to be New Zealanders who served with the Australian Forces, not New Zealanders who served in the NZEF. But I've been having computer difficulty, so it could the the hunk of junk I'm typing on doing Weird Things. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 7 August , 2006 Share Posted 7 August , 2006 Hi, Here is a bigger pic of Grandpop for you, also just simply hit the serach button on the website I gave you, it just lets me go straight in and do a search, so thats a little strange. The website is a study put together by the Australians, however it is a register of all NZs in the NZEF, all my relatives I found, and I also found both of the Mackenzies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 8 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2006 I've swapped computers, and it still doesn't work. There isn't a search button anywhere that I can see. What I get it this: AUSTRALIAN ANZACS IN THE GREAT WAR 1914-1918 The AIF Project The AIF Project is a research activity at The University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra. The project has developed a database that records information on the more than 330,000 men and women who embarked from Australia for service overseas in the (First) Australian Imperial Force, 1914-1918. Access to the AIF Database The database is not available for public access. Sources Disclaimer & Caution Examples West Wyalong, NSW Durrington Cemetery, Wiltshire Irish-born members of the AIF Victoria Cross winners NZ-born members of the AIF Walpeup Welcome Home Banner Enlistment details by state by marital status most common given names First AIF Order of Battle 1914-1918 Details of all formations and units in the 1st AIF Frequently Asked Questions CD-ROMS First to Fall Boer War If I click the NZ born members of the AIF link, I get NZ-born members of the AIF More than 1500 New-Zealand born men enlisted for service in the 1st AIF. Click here to locate their entries on the database. THE AIF PROJECT is grateful to Elizabeth Fisher for her efforts in locating the New Zealand burial details of members of the AIF, both Australian- and New Zealand-born. There *is* a 'search' link to click along the top of the page on that page, but when I click it, a box pops up asking for my user name and password. I don't have these and there is nowhere to register. I tried entering something and it didn't work. If I click 'cancel' on that pop-up box, the page then changes to say: Access to the AIF database is not available until further notice. Argh. Thanks for posting the larger phot. Good to see his face in better detail! You've got to wonder how easy or difficult it was to get extra ammunition out of those pouches with how high they are worn on the chest. And what did left-handers do? Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 8 August , 2006 Share Posted 8 August , 2006 Hi Allie, Ive never created an internet link before, so here goes. here All you need to do from that link is hit the search button and then you can search the NZEF. Hope this works good. cheers Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 8 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2006 Thanks, Aaron. That worked! I now know for certain which Alexander I want the file for - if I can find the dratted thing (or Trentham can). Alexander Fraser Mackenzie 25/790 is definitely not my chap. Alexander Fraser MACKENZIE 25/790 Next of kin: Father, Alexander Mackenzie, Waihou Waikato versus Uncle Jock: John MACKENZIE 12/160 Next of kin: Alexander Mackenzie, Mangatera Hawkes Bay But under McKenzie we have: Alexander Fraser MCKENZIE 11/798 Next of kin: Father, A Mckenzie, Birkley Farm Mangatera Hawkes Bay That one is certainly my man. And his son (named Jock, just to confuse everyone) spelt the surname MacKenzie. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 8 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2006 And -woohooo! - I know for certain which one is Uncle Duncan, too! Duncan MCKENZIE 43101 Next of kin: Father, A Mckenzie, Brenchley Mangatara Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 8 August , 2006 Share Posted 8 August , 2006 Allie, Awesome, glad I could help and we have finally solved the mystery of the Mackenzie brothers !! cheers Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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