jamesbow Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 hi all, is there a like rank in the army for a leading stoker?.also just been looking more closely at my fathers medals and they are inscribed thus:1914-15 star: ss101914 w. a. bowskill.sto.1.r.n. / great war for civilisation:ss101914 w. a. bowskill. l.sto.r.n.:. the next has the same no and leading stoker but the next medal the one with the ship on the reverse, has :ss101914gh. b.7175 w. a. bowskill.l sto.r.f.r.. does that mean he had a new no for the reserves?if so would there be another service record for him? many thanks jamesbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Hello cant think of one...not much "stoking" to do in the trenches..perhaps a chap in the royal engineers who was at the foot plate of a train ? Probably just be a Pte or similar though Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 What makes you think he wasn`t stoking on a ship, Ian? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Would have kept his rank as leading stoker if he was serving with one of the battalions in the Royal Naval Brigade. Is the query because you have a picture of him in army uniform? This is what the RNB would have worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 19 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2006 oops! sorry all,must have had one to many beers yesterday.i really meant to say:what is the equivalent rank in the army or airforce,i.e. corpral/sergeant sorry for confusion (hic)many thanks jamesbow.btw would there be another set of records for him in the r.f.r. with his other no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Milner Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 RFR = Royal Fleet Reserve. Only ex regulars were in the RFR having served 22 years, or more, pensionable service. What colour medal ribbon does the medal with the ship on the reverse have? Is the ship a three masted sailing vessel? If so it is possibly HMS Victory and the medal could be the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, awarded for fifteen years good conduct service. John Milner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 I believe Stoker is a job, not a rank. So equivalent would be private/sapper etc. As a leading stoker I think he would be a Leading Hand, roughly equivalent to corporal. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 19 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2006 hi john, its a first world war battleshipof somekind,it has his old ss no on and gh. b.7175 w. a. bowskill.l. sto.r.f.r. the rbbon if right is white/red/blue/red/ white. many thanks jamesbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Tomlinson Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Just to add fuel to the fire (so to speak), I've been trying to trace my long lost grandfather Henry Roberts for the last few months. He was a Sapper (446258) with the 439 Ches Field Co Royal Engineers and, according to his MIC, discharged in early November 1918 with SWB. The intriguing thing is that, on his Marriage Cert dated 31st Jan 1918 his occupation is given as Sapper, Royal Engineers with "Marine Fireman" in brackets afterwards. Shortly after discharge, he was with the Merchant Navy It appears that he was onboard ship whilst still in the Royal Engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Milner Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 If I have done this right! Is this the medal robbon? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Milner Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Medal ribbon even! Leading Stoker was a rate (rank) and a job, stokers were, and still are, ship's engineers working on anything mechanical that keeps a ship operational, when I left the RN in 1994 they were called Marine Engineering Mechanics. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 I bow to your naval knowledge, John, but in WW1 wouldn`t most stokers be actually shovelling coal? Or if not the stokers, then who did it in coal burners? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 The medals that you describe are: 1914-15 star; Victory Medal (great war for civilisation); British War Medal (the next) and the last one is a RFR Long Service Good Conduct Medal (a ship is on the back of almost all of the naval LSGCs, but they change depending on branch). Yes, he received a new number in the reserves, but information about his time in the reserves should be on his service register in ADM 188, which are now online. The reserve records would usually just be at most a tally of the training sessions that he attended. His number shows him to be a short service stoker, he signed on for 5 years regular and 7 years reserve service. According to the National Archives catalogue shows that w. a. bowskill joined the navy in 1904, so I expect he went to the RFR in 1909 and was recalled in 1914 after 5 years in the reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Stoker 2 (equivalent to private) is the lowest rank for the engineering/mechanical branch, next up is stoker 1, that is his rank on the star. A Leading Stoker was equivalent to a corporal. Their main task was maintaining the engines, and their main station was the engine room. You’re right that involved a lot of shovelling coal! But they would also be the department for solving mechanical tasks, it was naval forces that pioneered armoured cars and tanks in WW1 Britain. A ship was expected to be largely self-contained and solve most problems from their own recourses and one title (stoker or torpedo man) was used to cover many arenas (mechanical and electrical) in addition to the obvious. Straying off period, when HMS Chatham went to help after the tsunami the crew demonstrated their versatility and the commentary for ‘Shipmates’ pointed out that the phrase ‘jack of all trades’ stemed from that versatility being associated with naval Jacks (ratings). Scottie was an engineer and his domain was the engine room! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 19 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2006 hi one and all, many thanks for the replys,all noted.one thing ,he re-enrolled in rfr in 1910 surely his war medals should have been inscribed the same as long service i.e. r. f. r. not r. n.? i have his stokers manual for this period,it was a 3 month course /exam for a leading stoker ,can post some snippets if intrested? all the best jamesbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 When the RFR was mobilised all ratings reverted to being in the RN, so that's what's on his medals. He was still in the navy for his 7 years on reserve (automatically extended because of the war), he then probably remained in the reserve to qualify for the pension, earning his LSGC along the way. Does it say traced medal or traced med anywhere on his record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoldier Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 hi all, is there a like rank in the army for a leading stoker?.also just been looking more closely at my fathers medals and they are inscribed thus:1914-15 star: ss101914 w. a. bowskill.sto.1.r.n. / great war for civilisation:ss101914 w. a. bowskill. l.sto.r.n.:. the next has the same no and leading stoker but the next medal the one with the ship on the reverse, has :ss101914gh. b.7175 w. a. bowskill.l sto.r.f.r.. does that mean he had a new no for the reserves?if so would there be another service record for him? many thanks jamesbow. Hello James. Several of the Pals have hit the nail on the head. ie, John - M13pgb among others. My Son is ex RN, he tells me your Dad's Rate/Rank would have been something like Leading Hand / Corporal in the Army, probably served with one of the Naval Brigade's, Drake, Nelson etc. There were also Naval Gunners Supporting our troops. Terry W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Could some ex-matelot explain to this ex-pongo what indicates that he was in the RND? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Beats me Phil, I was going to ask the same question. I think that there is a lot of jumping to conclusions going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 21 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2006 hi all got this out of the 1912 stokers manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 21 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2006 and this,this should be the first page? regards jamesbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 21 May , 2006 Share Posted 21 May , 2006 Would anyone know whether a man would have to qualify to be a stoker2? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbow Posted 21 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2006 i thought i would share this with you,cant believe they really used rum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 24 May , 2006 Share Posted 24 May , 2006 I can believe they really used rum. It doesn't say how many parts would be used to lubricate the stokers Phil, Stoker 2nd class was the adult entry level for this department. Men were usually Sto2 for 2 years, unless they had prior experiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 25 May , 2006 Share Posted 25 May , 2006 So the Stoker 2 was straight off the street and totally unqualified? (When he arrived) Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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