jacquie Posted 22 March , 2006 Share Posted 22 March , 2006 I have a war diary which I found in my late mother's belonging which covers the whole of the Great War and am trying to identify who wrote the diary. The writer goes into a great deal of detail about everyone he is in contact with but doesn't give his own name although he states he was with RAMC - joining "Kitcheners Army" 7th September 1914. Sailed Avonmouth on SS Minnewaska March 5th 1915 - arrived Alexandria March 14th 1915 15th General Hospital - nursing orderly 15th March 1916 - 17th General Hospital 8th February 1918 - Zeitoun ? had to give up all equipment 4th March 1918 - volunteered for artillery but not accepted 25th March 1918 Kantara "am pleased to get webbing equipment. GAve all my serge in and was pleased to be relieved of it. spent the day putting equipment together and cleaning rifle which was greasy" 12th April Kantara 13th April Ludd 14th April Latron 15th April Enab 16th April Ram Allah 2nd May Jerusalem, Bethany, Mount of Olives 3rd May River Jordan, Jericho then reverse journey arriving Kantara 31st May 23rd June left for France on HMS Hazel - reported sick and disembarked 30th June for 79th General Hospital Train to France arriving Forges-les-Eaux July 15th. July 18th reported to 30th Divisional details and was told to rejoin Battalion in bileets in vicinity of Cassel. He writes in detail about Wulveghem Sept 1-2 1918 Wervicq October 12th-14th, St. Denis 19th-21st October Was a stretcher bearer - says he was detailled to "B company" - does not specifically mention Regiment or Battalion but all the casualties that he mentions are listed on CWGC site as London Regiment. Help anyone - I realise this process will be a bit of a needle in a haystack as the writer was not a family member ( I seem to remember Mum finding it at a jumble sale or something - but I would love to trace who he was - reading the diary, he feels like family!) Thanks in advance Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 23 March , 2006 Share Posted 23 March , 2006 Interesting diary. Do the CWGC entries for those mentioned who died give any London Regiment battalion numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 23 March , 2006 Share Posted 23 March , 2006 Looks likely that he may have been with a unit in 60th (2nd/2nd) London Division. If he was RAMC I would think it unlikely that he would be issued with webbing equipment and a rifle but I suppose he could have been a stretcher bearer in an infantry battalion and become a rifle and bayonet man. Are there any officers name mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 23 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2006 Thanks for that squirrel, unfortunately pc hard drive decided to give up yesterday so accessing this from library. Lots of names mentionned but don't have diary here. From memory therefore...In Alexandria etc. he reported to a Captain Jardine. Once in France reported to Captain Marks. CWGC info for casualties only seems to state London Regiment - how can I go about finding more about the division you mention? Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 23 March , 2006 Share Posted 23 March , 2006 Jacquie, sounds like a fascinating volume. The 60th division orbat is shown here: 60 Div Order of Battle & potted history on the LLT. There is a scarce volume History of the 60th Div by Colonel Dalbiac. In May/June 1918 3/4 of the London Regt bns in 60 Div were sent back to the western font and replaced w Indian troops, so he may well have accompanied one of these. Would you like to post the names of all the men mentioned? Please in as much detail as you can initials, ranks etc. The CWGC site and SDITGW normally state which battalion of the London Regiment. I may well be able to work out quite a lot from this info. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 24 March , 2006 Share Posted 24 March , 2006 My take on it all is that he originally went to Egypt with the RAMC, served there for a couple of years but eventually wanted a transfer to another unit, failed with Artillery but was eventually transferred to an Infantry battalion, probably a battalion of the London Regiment. If it was a London Regiment then it was probably one of five, the 2/14th, 2/15th, 2/16th, 2/17th or 2/23rd all transferred from 60th Division to 30th Division at the end of June/beginning of July 1918. He quite clearly states that on July 18th he "reported to 30th Divisional details and was told to rejoin Battalion". As Charles suggests, posting the names, ranks etc. will give us more to go on. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 25 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Have looked at some of the entries myself and found them all in 2/23rd batallion - rather new to this and hadn't realised ther was further information if you clicked on the name! Any ideas as to how I can narrow down my search to identify who he was or perhaps I should now start a new thread on the individul soldiers thread? Thanks Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 25 March , 2006 Share Posted 25 March , 2006 Having nothing better to do than a bit of number crunching on the NA website, and assuming he was RAMC before a transfer to the 2/23rd London Regiment after the Territorial numbering change in 1917 then the MIC's online throw up the following 7 possibilities listed as 23rd London Regiment: BEECH, George F. 265 RAMC to 704064 23rd/London Regiment BLADE, Gilbert G. 60993 RAMC to 705464 23rd/London Regiment. BOATMAN, Douglas P. 59978 RAMC to 705465 23rd/London Regiment. CRAWLEY, George H. 2008 RAMC to 704065 23rd/London Regiment. CURRELL, Edgar G. 54036 RAMC to 705510 23rd/London Regiment. DAMPNEY, Reginald William Robert. 2139 RAMC to 704068 23rd/London Regiment. HARRIS, Charles. 12052 RAMC to 705599 23rd/London Regiment. and the following 9 possibilities as just London Regiment although their service numbers fall in the range 700001 to 720000 allocated to 23rd Londons: EDWARDS, George. 115 RAMC to 704069 London Regiment. HEDGECOCK, Edward G. 71949 RAMC to 705600 London Regiment. HORGAN, John M. H. 99662 RAMC to 705601 London Regiment. JEFFREY, H. H. 63315 RAMC to 705629 London Regiment. MARTIN, Charles. 71449 RAMC to 70566?(incomplete) London Regiment. RIXON, Horatio V. 33324 RAMC to 705717 London Regiment. SLY, Charles W. C. 93576 RAMC tp 704070 London Regiment. WILLSHER, Frederick. 76679? (incomplete) RAMC to 70581? (incomplete) London Regiment. WOOLFORD, Walter T. 104117 RAMC to 702281 London Regiment. Any names ring a bell? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 26 March , 2006 Share Posted 26 March , 2006 I suspect that some of the men Steve has identified would have been part of a transfer of 3,000 RAMC men to 60 Divison in May 1916. This has been discussed in this thread. Is this too early for the man that the original post refers to? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 27 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2006 Thank you Steve and Charles. I was very excited to receive Steve's list and so went and checked the names on the 1901 census. There only appears to be one which fits most of the criteria (i.e. living in Chelsea, born 1894, and with 2 of the names that he mentions in his diary i.e. brother Ernest and sister ( in fact twin according to census) Ethel and that is CHARLES HARRIS 12052 RAMC 705599 23rd Londons. A couple of queries though before I get too excited at finding my needle in the haystack - is there any way of telling from the numbers when Charles enlisted. I know that he joined RAMC 7th September 1914 and appeared to transfer Feb/March 1918. Are the numbers consistant with this? Is there any way I can check this Charles Harris' birthdate as I know my man's dob is 6/11/1894. Last query - at what age were men called up? My man's brother Leonard was called up May 1916 and I was concerned that I couldn't find him on the 1901 census living at home. Right must go to bed it is 0214 and I was all set to go at 2300 until I read Steve's post and it was all systems go! Thanks for your continuing assistance, Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 27 March , 2006 Share Posted 27 March , 2006 Charles I suspect that some of the men Steve has identified would have been part of a transfer of 3,000 RAMC men to 60 Divison in May 1916. None of the men identified in the list have a Territorial number other than that of the London Regiment after the renumbering in early 1917. Am I not correct in thinking that if they were part of this transfer to 60th Division then they would have an earlier London Regiment number? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 27 March , 2006 Share Posted 27 March , 2006 Jacquie I'm afraid I know absolutely nothing about the way the RAMC were numbered so wouldn't like to even have a wild guess as to when he joined. 12052 is a reasonably low number in the overall scheme of things but couldn't say with any degree of certainty. One way to perhaps establish whether this man 'could be' yours is to download his MIC (at £3.50 a shot though this will soon get expensive if you have to keep doing it for every possibility). You have a date and theatre for 'your' man from the diary "Sailed Avonmouth on SS Minnewaska March 5th 1915 - arrived Alexandria March 14th 1915" so it would be interesting to see if his MIC shows qualification for the 1914-15 Star and theatre as (3) Egypt with those dates. Regards Steve ps. Sorry for being the cause of a late night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 27 March , 2006 Share Posted 27 March , 2006 None of the men identified in the list have a Territorial number other than that of the London Regiment after the renumbering in early 1917. Am I not correct in thinking that if they were part of this transfer to 60th Division then they would have an earlier London Regiment number? Interesting, this may well point to a post March 1917 transfer. However, I wouldn't count on it as I have found that some of the 19th London men on my database don't have the 4 digit number on the MIC Index and the MIC, but it is shown on the medal roll itself. A case of the 'rules' - such as they are - being interpreted differently by different medal offices and different clerks. The only way to be certain is to check the Rolls themselves which are particularly good for the London Regt where the dates that each man was in each theatre are given. There is a member of the GWF Westkent 78 who is compiling a databse of the 23rd Londons. Maybe he can help? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 28 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Charles, do you know how I can contact the person compiling the database for 23rd Londons. Thanks, Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Jacquie - go to the menu at the top of the page. on the right hand side is the word members. click on that and it will lead you to a page which will allow you to search for a member. suggest you just put in "west" and it will bring up all names starting with those 4 letters. Yu can then send him either a Private Message (PM) or an email via the forum. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 2 December , 2008 Share Posted 2 December , 2008 Jacquie, Resurrecting this thread. Bad news I'm afraid. I've now been able to check Charles Harris' medal roll entry and it doesn't match with the diary author's stated dates. Charles Harris first entered France on 15 Aug 1914 with RAMC - before the author had even joined RAMC. Harris left F&F on 25 Jun 1915 and then proceeded to cruise around on the H.S. Valdiva from 24 Jul 1915 to 8 Dec 1916 when he appears to have transferred to an Egypt-based RAMC unit until his transfer to 2/23rd London on 19 Feb 1918. The author is definitely 2/23rd and now I have the roll I can knock off all the candidates one by one to see who the mystery author is- (I have my suspicions but I'll keep them to myself so we don't have a repeat of the Harris situation) Have you been able to transcribe the diary at all? I'd really like to see what/who it mentions from the 2/23rd and from his family as that may help narrow the search down/confirm who i think it is. Best regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 29 April , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2010 Matthew Sorry for the long delay in replying (16 months!) but I only picked up your mail by chance today. Oh dear! Thank you for resurrecting the thread. Have you had any more joy with regards to our mystery author or did you give up on him (and me) when I failed to reply (I wouldn't blame you!)? At the moment I don't really have much more I can add to the details that are already in the preceding posts - i.e. born 6th November 1894 - lived Chelsea - brother Leonard, sister Ethel. Any info gratefully received! Jacquie Jacquie, Resurrecting this thread. Bad news I'm afraid. I've now been able to check Charles Harris' medal roll entry and it doesn't match with the diary author's stated dates. Charles Harris first entered France on 15 Aug 1914 with RAMC - before the author had even joined RAMC. Harris left F&F on 25 Jun 1915 and then proceeded to cruise around on the H.S. Valdiva from 24 Jul 1915 to 8 Dec 1916 when he appears to have transferred to an Egypt-based RAMC unit until his transfer to 2/23rd London on 19 Feb 1918. The author is definitely 2/23rd and now I have the roll I can knock off all the candidates one by one to see who the mystery author is- (I have my suspicions but I'll keep them to myself so we don't have a repeat of the Harris situation) Have you been able to transcribe the diary at all? I'd really like to see what/who it mentions from the 2/23rd and from his family as that may help narrow the search down/confirm who i think it is. Best regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 1 May , 2010 Share Posted 1 May , 2010 Jacquie, You have Horatio Rixon's diary. In 1911 he was living in Chelsea with parents George William and Elizabeth and siblings Leonard Charles and Ethel Elizabeth. Horatio was listed as a 16 year old porter at the Civil Service Stores. He was born in Fulham. His service papers have not survived but the medal roll indicates that he did go to Egypt on 15th March 1915 and transferred to 2/23rd London on 19th February 1918. He left Egypt on 23rd June 1918 and reached Italy on 30th June, entering France and Flanders on 10th July and being discharged on 10th January 1919. His brother's papers have survived- he was a driver in the Royal Field Artillery, number 145584. he listed his occupation as postman. He spent over a year in U.K. before shipping off to Mesopotamia in June 1917. His service was with 3738 Bde RFA and 74th Company, Royal Garrison Artillery. I'd be very interested in getting a transcript of his diary with regard to service with 2/23rd, if at all possible, when you re-locate the diary. Glad we have this one finally identified. Best regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquie Posted 1 May , 2010 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2010 Dear Matthew Many many thanks for that! I will PM you with transcript of 2/23rd service as requested when I have relocated and transcribed the diary - hopefully it won't take another 16 months! In the meantime if you have any transcripts of the records you have on Horatio and his brother I would be grateful if you could PM them so I can add them to my records. Many thanks again Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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