Ryukyu Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Hi, So far i have.. Medal Records (National Archives) Place of burial (CWGC) Battalion Diary (www.rhf.org.uk) Shoulder to Shoulder: A personal account of the 9th Glasgow Highlanders (www.rhf.org.uk) Death Certificate (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) But i would dearly love to find a picture of my Great Uncle. Does anybody have any advice how to go about this. I intend to visit the RHF museum in Glasgow in July, as im abroad just now, but are there any Newspapers or other resources i should try? He was from a very rural area, i doubt if his family had a picture of him, but of course they might, but if not, how could i recognise him if i had a photo of, say the battalion? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian grant Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Ewan, the man pictured in my avater is my great uncle also and i was in exactly the same position as you, i had given up hope of ever finding a picture of him, it's cropped from a picture in his hometown newspaper, the falkirk library sent it to me as a matter of interest as i was making a seach for his brother, who i later found out died before WW1. The library has been a huge help to me with Royal Scots & family history research. Contact his county library, and ask them to search local papers from - to for photos relating to his battalion, they may have an obituary inserted by his family in his local newspaper. Regards Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 urname MACRAE Firstname John Service Number 241566 Date Death 12/10/1918 Decoration Place of birth Snizord Skye Other 9th Bn. (T.). SNWM roll THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY Rank Pte Theatre of death F.& F. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 14 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Thanks! I will try the local route, i really hope i find a photo of him. I am also trying to confirm whether or not he was a piper, my father said he was, but i dont know how to verify this. Also im trying to find out when he enlisted in Glasgow? I seem to have located his will in the NAS National Archives of Scotland, which will be worth a look. Thanks for the help guys, i need it all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 14 January , 2006 Share Posted 14 January , 2006 Ryukyu, Do you know where he came from? It might help when it comes to looking for local newspapers. If its anywhere near me I will keep an eye out for you. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 15 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2006 He was from Tote, Snizort, Isle of Skye. Its very remote so i will have trouble with researching locally i imagine. On the War records, Snizort is spelt with a D at the end instead of a T which is a typo. Thanks for the offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolus Posted 15 January , 2006 Share Posted 15 January , 2006 If you haven't been there to see it you will perhaps not know that John Macrae's gravestone, in the Montay-Neuvilly Rd Cemetery, is inscribed: O BHAIS CAITH AM BHEIL DO GATH UAIGH CAITH AM BHEIL DO BHUAITH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Dolus, Great, thanks for that. I haven`t been but i intend to in July or thereabouts. Have you been to the cemetery? Can i ask how you knew the inscription? I know there are 10 others from his battalion there as well. Thanks again, much appreciated!! Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 17 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 January , 2006 By the way.... Can anybody tell me how i can find out when my Great Uncle left for France? I know when the battalion left, i just dont know if he left then or not? His details are: Private John MacRae(241566) 1st/9th HLI, F&F, KIA 12/10/1918 aged 21. Killed during the Pursuit to the Selle. Also, the inscription Dolus gave me, does anybody speak Gaelic, i have no idea..... O BHAIS CAITH AM BHEIL DO GATH UAIGH CAITH AM BHEIL DO BHUAITH Any help on anything related to my Great Uncle would be much appreciated Thanks Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Though it's not a hard and fast rule (or at least exceptions do occur), the fact that he isn't shown as having a 4-digit TF number on his MIC would suggest that he went overseas some time after early 1917. He does though seem to have a fairly "middle" number in the renumbering. The numbers seem to go up to about 243500 before finishing. I don't know how the new TF HLI numbers were allocated but I have seen other Regiments where they are allocated in order of their old numbers. This might suggest a fair amount of service in the UK before going overseas. Looking at a few of the numbers around him: 241550 prev. 4088 241551 no prev no on MIC but probably 4089 241552 prev. 4090 241553 prev. 4091 241554 no prev. no on MIC 241555 no prev. no on MIC 241556 prev 4098 241557 no prev. no 241558 not found (no overseas service?) 241559 prev. 4104 241560 no prev. number (also Labour Corps 397903) 241561 prev 4110 241562 not found (no overseas service?) 241563 no prev. no 241564 no prev. no 241565 no prev. no 241566 no prev. no (Arthur McRae) 241567 not found (no overseas service?) 241568 not found (no overseas service?) 241569 not found (no overseas service?) That might suggest his original number was in the 4100s perhaps between 4110 and 4120. If one of these men (or one with a similar number had a SWB, you might be able to narrow down his enlistment date, though that would best be done at Kew) The HLI numbers seem to have reached about 4700 in the 9th battalion before men serving with these numbers no longer went overseas. (i.e. men allocated these numbers didn't get overseas before the numbers completely changed) Hope this makes some sense, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdwn1 Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Hi, So far i have.. Medal Records (National Archives) Place of burial (CWGC) Battalion Diary (www.rhf.org.uk) Shoulder to Shoulder: A personal account of the 9th Glasgow Highlanders (www.rhf.org.uk) Death Certificate (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) But i would dearly love to find a picture of my Great Uncle. Does anybody have any advice how to go about this. I intend to visit the RHF museum in Glasgow in July, as im abroad just now, but are there any Newspapers or other resources i should try? He was from a very rural area, i doubt if his family had a picture of him, but of course they might, but if not, how could i recognise him if i had a photo of, say the battalion? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ewan Ewan, I am pleased to say that I have found a photograph of your Great Uncle. The photograph is from a book in my WW1 library. The title of the book is: The Clan MacRae - With its Roll of Honour and of Service in the Great War, compiled by Ella Macrae-Gillstrap and published by the Rosemount Press Aberdeen 1923. The text entry relating to your Great Uncle from this book is as follows: MACRAE, JONATHAN F., 241566 Pte. Piper 9th Batt (Glasgow Highlanders) Enlisted 1915; in training in England and Ireland acted as piper in the latter :drafted to France, 1916 served in France and Flanders :for a time att. Gordon Highlanders : twice wounded , severely Mar 1918: killed in action in France 12 Oct 1918 From (Tote, Skeabost) I have attached the photo of your Great Uncle with this post which I hope has been uploaded correctly if not let me know. I hope you enjoy your visit to the RHF museum in Glasgow in July which I can recommend as being from the area I visit it when I can. Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 18 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Fantastic!! Unfortunately it didnt upload, but please try again, it means so much to me. Thankyou for taking the time to look, i really appreciate it. Also thanks for the information about enlisting, that was proving to be the second stumbling block after the photo...excellent stuff! Could you try again to post it again, or my e-mail is ewanmacrae@hotmail.co.uk i would be very grateful if you could. Many many thanks!! Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdwn1 Posted 20 January , 2006 Share Posted 20 January , 2006 Ewan As there has been some problems in sending the photo I have uploaded it to my webserver and you can hopefully access it there. The URL has been sent direct to your email address. Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdwn1 Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Ewan I have now sucessfully managed to upload the images relating to you Great Uncle with this post. As I have had to keep the file size down higher resolution files are available if required at http://www.jdwn.freeserve.co.uk/eps405tv/i...athanmacrae.jpg http://www.jdwn.freeserve.co.uk/eps405tv/i...nmacraetext.JPG Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 RYUKYU, Fantastic news about getting the picture of your great uncle. All of the deaths of the great war are sad, but I still found it particularly sad about your great uncle's date of death, as he died do close to the end of the war. If possible, on the trip to Glasgow, ask to look at the Highland Light Infantry Chronicle. It sometimes contains very detailed accounts of the actions that the men took part in (mentioning names and specific details of what they are doing). If you couple this with the battalion and brigade diary it can give you an idea of the circumstances that were occuring when your great uncle was killed. Incidentally, I don't know if you are aware but the 9th Bn HLI (Glasgow Highlanders) wore government tartan kilts (Black Watch) and also a capbadge based on the one worn by the Black Watch (As the remainder of the HLI wore normal field trousers & MacKenzie tartan trews). The Highland Division Soldier at Beaumont Hamel was modelled on a 9 HLI soldier. Inscribed at the bottom of the figure are the moving words: Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean Friends are good on the day of battle Also to be found on the 51st Highland Division memoral at St Valery-en-Caux. I hope this helps Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 21 January , 2006 Share Posted 21 January , 2006 Have a look at this link: http://membres.lycos.fr/pipersmemorial/beaumont2.htm Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 22 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Well, i can`t thank the people that have helped me enough. I started this after my Dad told me that my Great Grandmother went to her bed and didn`t come out of it for many months she was so devastated by his death. I saw his name on the Portree memorial on the Isle of Skye where i am from, and found out his battalion. That was all me or my family knew, we didnt know when he died, or where. We didnt know how old he was, or what he looked like. As Tom says, it was particularly sad because it was so close to the end of the War, my Dad had said he thought that was the case but we didnt know for sure. As you can see now, we have been able to do the very least that my Great Uncle, and all those who served in the World Wars deserve, and that is to remember them and pass down through our families the memory so that they will never be forgotten. Thankyou so much to everybody who helped me, as many of you will probably have been in a similar situation you will know how grateful i am to all of you. If anybody would like any help with anything please contact me, as i am in your debt. Yours, Ewan MacRae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 22 January , 2006 Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Ewan, Please have a look at page two of this link: http://www.lostgeneration1418.com/forums/i...wtopic=498&st=0 It contains an example of the Highland Light Infantry Chronicle concerning 12 HLI at the Battle of Loos (25 Sep 1915). As you can see it is very detailed. There may be an account in this publication that will explain the circumstances that 9 HLI were in round about when your great uncle was killed. Hope this helps Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryukyu Posted 22 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2006 Yes, it will. At the moment i am making an educated guess that he died during the pursuit to the river Selle, whether im right or not i dont know, this should be able to confirm it or not. I dont have any information about the river selle, i have the war diary of the battalion from the RHF website, and it looks like he would have been there, but hopefully the chronicle will have something. Thanks again!! Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 Ewan, On the RHF website, you can download the 9 HLI Diary and book Shoulder to Shoulder. They are downloadable as a word document. I thought this may find this useful: http://www.rhf.org.uk/Books/index.htm Aye Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 RYUKYU, The Highland Division Soldier at Beaumont Hamel was modelled on a 9 HLI soldier. Inscribed at the bottom of the figure are the moving words: Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean Friends are good on the day of battle Also to be found on the 51st Highland Division memoral at St Valery-en-Caux. I hope this helps Tom McC Tom, The Highlander statue was based on CSM Rowan of the Gordon Highlanders. pp158 Battleground Europe Newfoundland Park, Somme. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 Malcolm, He may have been in the Gordon Highlanders. But in accordance with this he was in 9 HLI http://membres.lycos.fr/pipersmemorial/beaumont2.htm Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 Malcolm, Also, the medal card for CSM R (Bob) Rowan is HLI hope this helps http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...r=1&querytype=1 Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 Bob Rowan's Regimental Number is in 9 HLI's diary: [6 April 1918: Camp near Vlamertinge] 11.30am: Adjutant’s parade. Steady Drill. 2.45pm: Presentation of medal ribbons by Corps Commander Sir Aylmer Hunter Weston CMG DSO etc etc to the undermentioned 2/Lt DT Livingstone MM won the Military Cross 330029 Regt Sgt Major R Rowan DCM The following received the Military Medal No.330663 Sgt W Williamson No.332095 Sgt Butler No.334261 Act Cpl NK McLeod No.333049 Pte J McMenemy No.332900 L/Cpl T Tute No.333855 Cpl W Dixon No.331744 L/Cpl J Stevenson No.50891 [illegible] R White No.50022 [illegible] S Minster No.335368 [illegible] G Lewins No.332437 L/Cpl J Milne No.331322 L/Cpl A Hovell No.332963 L/Cpl G Russell No.331294 Pte T Taylor Again hope this is of use Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 17 February , 2006 Share Posted 17 February , 2006 Well bu**ar me!!!" Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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