david murdoch Posted 2 January , 2006 Share Posted 2 January , 2006 Can anyone help me - I am looking for any information (or rather sources ) on Nigel Fitzroy Somerset MC,DSO. Glostors and MGC(M). he was known as 'Slasher Somerset" and was CO of 14th L.A.M.B in Mesopotamia, and afterwards in India. Did he write his memoirs? Maybe someone with Glostors knowlage can help - if there are any photos of him from this era - particularly in MGC uniform. Regards David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 2 January , 2006 Share Posted 2 January , 2006 The Hon Nigel Fitzroy Somerset was the grandson of Lord Raglan and was commissioned into the 1st Battalion Glosters on 3 Sep 13 and, since he was awarded the 1914 Star, almost certainly went to France with the Bn in Aug 14. He was promoted Lt on 3 Nov 14 and Capt on 4 Jun 21, being awarded the brevet of Maj on 2 Jul 21. His DSO was gazetted on 2 Apr 19. The citation appeared in the London Gazette of 10 Dec 19 and was for the action near Qaiyarah on 30 Oct 18. You should be able to hunt down details of his MC on the London Gazette website. I am not aware that he personally wrote any account, but the war diary of 14 LAMB can be found at the National Archives, Kew under WO 95/5044. From my notes, made many years ago, it would seem that Somerset took the unit to Mespot at the end of 1916. Likewise the 1st Glosters war diary should help. Kermit Roosevelt, son of President Teddy Roosevelt, also served in 14 LAMB and wrote a book of his experiences, in which Somerset is mentioned, under the title War in the Garden of Eden. It seems as though you can download the text by going to www.gutenberg.org/etext/13665. Other sources which might help, especially over a photograph, are the Tank Museum at Bovington and The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Museum at Salisbury. Both have websites. I hope that this will at least give you are start. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 2 January , 2006 Share Posted 2 January , 2006 His Who's Who entry in 1928 is interesting - a synopsis: Born Cefntilla Court, Usk, Monmouthshire, 27.7.93, 3rd son of 3rd Baron Raglan. Married, 1922, Phyllis Marion Offley, daughter of Dr H O Irwin of Wsetern Australia. educated King William's College, IOM, and Sandhurst. Commissioned Glosters 3.9.13, France 12 Aug 14 (wounded Aisne, 15.9.14) returned to France 3.12.14 (wounded Cuinchy 12.5.15). Mespot Oct 16 - May 19. Majority on promotion to substantive Captain, 1918. Indian Frontier May-Sept 1919. ADC to Governor S Australia 1920-22. In 1928 was Assistant Military Secretary, HQ Southern Command, India. Address is given as Gloucestershire regiment, HQ Southern Command, Poona; his Club was the Junior naval and Military, and his recreations were shooting and tennis (though not necessarily at the same time, I'm guessing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 2 January , 2006 Share Posted 2 January , 2006 An addition to my last. The 1934 Army List shows him serving with 2nd Bn Glosters, then at Catterick Camp, having been promoted substantive Major on 1 May 33. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 2 January , 2006 Share Posted 2 January , 2006 15 years to get from substantive captain to substantive major - but then I believe Monty went from Acting Brigadier General to substantive Major General in the same period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 4 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2006 Thanks for the replies. My interest in Somerset is primarily his time with 14th L.A.M.B. in turn due to its's links with 8th L.A.M.B (my grandfather's unit) It would apear from their war diary that the two units worked together in various locations, and were pushing towards Mosul when the war ended. 8th L.A.M.B war diary mentions joint operations under overall command of "CO of 14th L.A.M.B." These were the beginnings of the L.A.M.B brigade, which predated the Armoured Car Companies. I am wondering if the L.A.M.B emblem (see my avatar) also stems from this time, if it originated with one battery or was designed as an emblem to give the larger unit an identity. As far as I can tell Somerset then went on to be an armoured car company comander (in India). A trip to the I.W.M archive turned up some good photos - a couple of 14th's cars in action at under shellfire at Qaiyarah, I think in the same action he won his DSO. Also turned up one very good one of Roosevelt with cavalry officers. I have been in touch with David Fletcher at Bovington in the past, but I have never made it down there yet. ( being a tax exile of sorts!). I have several photographs of my own, I am trying to identifyunits/cars - in my grandfather's photos there are different cars in each one, but none have any unit marking or serial number on the usual place. He could have been with more than one unit himself or was with the different units working together. I found some background info on Somerset by way of Google, and there is a photo of him on the Glostors site, but it is much later date. His DSO. Lieutenant Nigel Fitzroy Somerset, MC - (Glosters and Mounted Machine Gun Corps) - 2nd April 1919 Lieutenant Nigel Fitzroy Somerset, MC - (Glosters and Motor Machine Gun Corps) - 10th December 1919. "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty near Qaiyarah on 30 Oct. 1918. Owing to the bold and skilful handling of his armoured cars under heavy fire a retreating force of 500 of the enemy, with 10 machine-guns, were forced to halt, thus giving an opportunity for a successful attack by a cavalry regiment, to whom he had sent information. As a result of this encounter the entire hostile force was captured. He desplayed marked coolness and initiative throughout the operations." He later became Lt Col back in the Glostors, and was taken POW at Cassel in WW2 Regards David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 4 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2006 Charles. Thank you for the link to Roosevelt's book. I have been after a copy or reprint for ages. It is excellent reading and interesting in that when it was written in 1919, my grandfather was still there fighting in Kurdistan! The map and references to place names is of great interest too as he is using the spelling of the time - I have a list of place names written down by my grandfather (from Loos to Kirkuk) Some of the more obscure ones I could not find before on modern map of Iraq, but tie in with mentions in the book - so they were in many of the same places. The pictures are also interesting - the one of the cars crossing the river is from the same series as the ones I got at I.W.M - They are titled as being cars of 8th L.A.M.B.,and also show Turkish prisoners wading the other way. Note the solo motorbike on the back of the car. My own pics show four different types of car. The ones with standard turret, ones with extended turret, one with small box type extension, and one with asbestos/cement cladding on turret and body that might be 13th L.A.M.B - thinking back to photo in "War Cars". None of them have any number or name on the side of the bonnet. Oops getting a bit off topic....! David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 21 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2020 Bumping this thread up after 14 years! I'm still looking for a decent photo of him. Given his background seems to be very little on him or official photos, newspaper archives have not turned up anything either. I have this one obviously post war and one later in 1935 which is not very clear as it's a newspaper group photo of 2nd Glostors officers. Really looking for him as a younger man during WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apapa Posted 23 January , 2021 Share Posted 23 January , 2021 Hi - I am researching my Great Uncle Percy James Clewlow MGC (M) 2595 who was in 14th LAMB. Firstly, thank you to everyone for the knowledge gleaned from these posts over time - I have downloaded War in the Garden of Eden and have also been reading up on their CO that David references above. I have a piece of Trench Art from Percy - a matchbox cover that depicts RR HMAC Gray Terror on the front, will photograph and upload next. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apapa Posted 23 January , 2021 Share Posted 23 January , 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 23 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2021 (edited) Apapa. Welcome to the forum, and thanks for adding to this thread. I am aware of Percy in my research and have him listed on my 14th L.A.M.B spreadsheet. Unfortunately not much documentation - only medal card and medal roll. However he is noted in the 14th L.A.M.B was diary list of personnel. He was one of a group of replacement personnel who joined the battery in mid 1917. He originally joined the Motor Machine Gun Service around November 11th 1915. In the photo he's wearing MMG cap badge and has Motor Machine Guns shoulder patch. He's also wearing leather gaiters indicating motorcycle service. Most of the original battery personnel (by their numbers and enlistment dates) joined the MMGS before Machine Gun Corps was created and before the army took over armoured cars. Their first unit appears to have been one of several Motor Machine Gun batteries were was disbanded /reconfigured into armoured car units in the UK. You may also find this thread on Rolls Royce Armoured Cars. In the last couple of pages just in the last week there are a number of photos of armoured cars and men of 14th L.A.M.B posted up by the grandson of one of the car drivers and we have been discussing 14th L.A.M.B. Rolls-Royce Armoured Cars - Page 5 - Other Equipment - Great War Forum Edited 23 January , 2021 by david murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apapa Posted 24 January , 2021 Share Posted 24 January , 2021 Hi David, Thank you so much for your reply - I have spent much of the day reading WO95/4996 diaries of the 14th LAMB and noticed the entry for Percy. His demob date was 2nd December 1919 so thinking this ties in with the diary entry of 1915 men sent for demob around Oct 1919. Interestingly, the picture you sent me is actually my own - that I scanned and uploaded to Ancestry - the power of the internet eh! I appreciate your sharp eye referencing his boots as at present I have no other information relating to his service. I will look at the other thread now as the pictures sound very interesting. One question - I believe that each LAMB consisted of 4 x 2 AC's - do you know roughly how many personnel that equated to? I was thinking that if that roll call in the diary is complete then there were not that many? ps I read a previous post of yours that concerned an incident with 14th LAMB in June 2020 - did you find out the detail? - as I remember about six months ago stumbling across a story of how 2 AC's were lost from the 14th LAMB around that time due to an ambush in a village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 24 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2021 The different L.A.MB units evolved in different ways, but basically they standardised on eight armoured cars in four sections of two cars (as minimum they operated as pairs). 15th L.A.M.B has a listing at the beginning of their war diary of vehicles and manpower when they arrived in Mesopotamia, which will be fairly typical. 8 Rolls Royce armoured cars. 3 Daimler lorries. 4 Ford vans. 1 Ford touring car 14 Douglas motorcycles. 5 Officers (MGC)M 41 Other Ranks (MGC(M) 35 Other Ranks (Army Service Corps) In addition each Battery had a dedicated mobile workshop crew. 1 Officer (Army Service Corps) 25 Other Ranks (Army Service Corps) Latterly there was a central repair workshop in Baghdad. The roll in the 14th L.A.M.B diary is really only MGC(M) personnel (Other Ranks) at that particular time - they always had people out sick and in hospital! You may like to download and look at the L.A.M.B Brigade war diary - as it's a good overview and being typed and easy to read. It shows how the units were employed - you can see it's actually unusual for a whole battery to be in any one place - more often individual sections operating alongside other units. A lot probably depended on who had cars serviceable at any given time and also the huge area they were tasked to cover. There are various entries regarding demobilisation and replacement personnel. My grandfather demobbed 28/11/1919 - so probably in the same group. Possibly came back on the same boat - which took around a month. He actually had to travel all the way up to Fort George (Inverness) and was demobilised there. Demob dates being in the UK you are probably looking at around six weeks or so after being released from unit. WO 95/4995/18 L.A.M.B Brigade 1918 Feb. – 1920 Nov. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ser=WO+95&id=C14303&_q=WO+95%2F4995%2F18+ The disaster in 1920 where they lost the cars involved later or replacement personnel. On 4th June 1920 the people in Tel Afar, 30 miles (48 kilometres) west of Mosul, rose up against the British-officered local Arab levies and killed the levy commander, the Assistant Political Officer and other locally employed British personnel. A section of two British armoured cars from the 14th Light Armoured Motor Battery (LAMB), was sent to Tel Afar to provide fire support. Despite receiving warnings of danger from an aircraft overhead that dropped messages, the cars were surrounded in the narrow streets of the town and their crews were killed. The only survivor from the two armoured cars was the local servant of the section commander. Nobody really knew what had happened but it appeared that the section commander drove into Tel Afar possibly trying to rescue two British personnel who were firing on the insurgents from the roof of the political bungalow. But the cars were trapped in a narrow lane and enemy fire from the rooftops above killed the crews. An enemy grenade then killed the men on the political bungalow roof. The Assistant Political Officer had initially been captured but he escaped only to be overtaken and killed two miles (3.2 kilometres) west of the town. A British column of 1,000 men composed of cavalry, artillery and infantry was then sent. The column skirmished with around 1,200 Arab horsemen before it entered Tel Afar and applied heavy punitive measures on the townsfolk. Punitive measures included destroying selected buildings, burning down entire villages, seizing weapons, crops and livestock, hanging known killers and levying fines. 55801 Corporal George Ernest Andrews, MGC Motors (Served under the name of Taylor). 88901 Private Alfred Walter Booth, 2nd Northumberland Fusiliers attached MGC Motors. 59412 Rifleman Walter Thomas Earl, ‘C’ Company 1st Bn Rifle Brigade attached MGC Motors. 3707 Gunner Alfred Victor Mercer, MGC Motors. 82025 Private George Miller, MGC Motors. 148721 Private Alfred Taylor, MGC Motors. 127281 Gunner James Thompson, MGC Motors. 5th June 1920. 182383 Private William Henry Williams, MGC Motors. 5th June 1920. 183458 Private Thomas Alfred Woodhouse, MGC Motors. 5th June 1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apapa Posted 24 January , 2021 Share Posted 24 January , 2021 Hi David - thanks again - will download the LAMB Brigade doc now, useful that it is free at this time - a nice touch in this world at the moment. Do you know of any websites that have brought together info from Mesopotamia? It strikes me that this is such an interesting, and possibly untold part of the WW1 theater. I ask this as I am a part time web developer and to see all these photographs and research in a common place would be a fitting tribute to these men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Clewlow Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 On 23/01/2021 at 16:49, david murdoch said: Apapa. Welcome to the forum, and thanks for adding to this thread. I am aware of Percy in my research and have him listed on my 14th L.A.M.B spreadsheet. Unfortunately not much documentation - only medal card and medal roll. However he is noted in the 14th L.A.M.B was diary list of personnel. He was one of a group of replacement personnel who joined the battery in mid 1917. He originally joined the Motor Machine Gun Service around November 11th 1915. In the photo he's wearing MMG cap badge and has Motor Machine Guns shoulder patch. He's also wearing leather gaiters indicating motorcycle service. Most of the original battery personnel (by their numbers and enlistment dates) joined the MMGS before Machine Gun Corps was created and before the army took over armoured cars. Their first unit appears to have been one of several Motor Machine Gun batteries were was disbanded /reconfigured into armoured car units in the UK. You may also find this thread on Rolls Royce Armoured Cars. In the last couple of pages just in the last week there are a number of photos of armoured cars and men of 14th L.A.M.B posted up by the grandson of one of the car drivers and we have been discussing 14th L.A.M.B. Rolls-Royce Armoured Cars - Page 5 - Other Equipment - Great War Forum Hello, I have only just joined this forum as I was embarking on a quest to find out whether my Grandfather on my Father’s side, Percy James Clewlow, served in the MGC. Well, if they are the same, it rather looks like he did. If you are his Great Nephew, we are distantly related! Do you have other details to verify if they are one and the same? Best, Adrian Clewlow (Ade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 March , 2022 Admin Share Posted 26 March , 2022 @Apapa hasn’t visited the forum for 14 months. Hopefully, my tag will alert them to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 26 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2022 2 hours ago, Ade Clewlow said: Hello, I have only just joined this forum as I was embarking on a quest to find out whether my Grandfather on my Father’s side, Percy James Clewlow, served in the MGC. Well, if they are the same, it rather looks like he did. If you are his Great Nephew, we are distantly related! Do you have other details to verify if they are one and the same? Best, Adrian Clewlow (Ade). Hi Adrian. Welcome to the forum. For sure your grandfather is the same man! So if you look back in this thread you will see a bit about him and also the armoured car unit he served with. There is also more background in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Clewlow Posted 26 March , 2022 Share Posted 26 March , 2022 2 hours ago, Michelle Young said: @Apapa hasn’t visited the forum for 14 months. Hopefully, my tag will alert them to your post. Thanks 🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjwmacro Posted 28 March , 2022 Share Posted 28 March , 2022 On 26/03/2022 at 17:35, Ade Clewlow said: it rather looks like he did. If you are his Great Nephew, we are distantly related! The GWF does it again! Hope you successfully establish contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Clewlow Posted 28 March , 2022 Share Posted 28 March , 2022 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apapa Posted 12 April , 2022 Share Posted 12 April , 2022 (edited) Hi - Many thanks to @Michelle Young for alerting me to this post - Hi @Ade Clewlow, yes looks like the GWF has indeed worked! My Grandmother was Elizabeth Mabel Clewlow, born 22 Aug 1901, the younger sister of Percy. I have been researching Percy on and off for about 15 years following a gift from my Grandmother of the trench art matchbox that is photographed earlier in this post. She used it to light the gas fire in her lounge when I was a kid :-) Would be great to join forces to learn more! Kindest regards, Paul Arnold Edited 12 April , 2022 by Apapa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Clewlow Posted 12 April , 2022 Share Posted 12 April , 2022 Hi Paul @Apapa , What a wonderful site this is! Perhaps we can find each other on LinkedIn so that we can finally meet! I’m fairly easy to find. Really looking forward to hearing from you. I have a lot of questions! Best, Ade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 12 April , 2022 Admin Share Posted 12 April , 2022 @Ade Clewlow you can send Paul a private message if you click on his name them click on the envelope icon. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Clewlow Posted 12 April , 2022 Share Posted 12 April , 2022 🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smart Posted 18 April , 2022 Share Posted 18 April , 2022 Ade, Thought you might appreciate this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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