Gallipoli landing

[erickson]

Hello,

Regarding the planned landing on "Brighton Beach": In the same way that the Ay Tepe & Gozcu Tepe strong points overlooked W and V Beach, so too did the Gaba Tepe strong point overlook what the Brits called Brighton Beach. Similarly to Cape Helles, Brighton Beach was wired and covered by pre-planned direct and indirect fires. Moreover the 27th IR conducted a fire planning exercise from Kavak Tepe (or up hill from the beach) on 15 Feb 1915 (making sure that coordination of fires was achieved) and on 25 April, the 5th company 2-27 IR was in position for a pre-rehearsed counter-attack on the beach.

Had the Australians come ashore there (instead of in Anzac Cove) they would have been pinned down immediately -- as happened at W & V Beaches. An actual landing on Brighton Beach itself would have been as bloody as W & V Beaches and the Ottoman pre-planned and pre-rehearsed counter attack plan likely would have thrown them back into the sea.

As Australian historian Frank Cain has suggested -- as the boats came in to Brighton Beach, very heavy defensive fires tended to push them northward to Anzac where they were protected from the Turkish fires and could safely debark.

This point is covered in the forthcoming book, which should be available in early March 2007:

Edward J. Erickson, Ottoman Army Effectiveness in WW1: A Comparative Study (London: Routledge, 2007)

[Crunchy]

As Australian historian Frank Cain has suggested -- as the boats came in to Brighton Beach, very heavy defensive fires tended to push them northward to Anzac where they were protected from the Turkish fires and could safely debark.

Hello Edward,

Does Cain suggest that this was the cause for the initial landing being pushed north and going ashore in Anzac Cove at 0430 or is he applying it to later waves? If the former, there is a problem with his thesis in that, according to all of the sources I have read, the first shots rang out just prior to the first wave boats grounding around the northern headland of Anzac Cove; the second wave coming in immediately behind them landed astride the Cove, the 11th Battalion coming ashore on North Beach. Thus the boats had moved northward before any firing broke out. When the 2nd Brigade started landing its troops the first group was put ashore further north again (around the Fisherman's Hut) and after losing heavily were diverted south to the protected landing site at Anzac Cove.

If you have information to the contrary it would be interesting to see it.

I agree with you points on Gaba Tepe and the results that could have occurred had the landing gone ashore as planned on Brighton Beach. The Anzacs would have suffered severe losses and the landing may well have been untenable.

I look forward to reading your book when it is released.

Regards

Chris

[Auimfo]

Exactly what I thought Chris. Any source or reference I've ever read clearly states that the first wave (and subsequent second) were almost ashore before being subjected to defensive fire.

Although possibly true of later waves, this defence is unlikely to be the reason for the early waves being pushed north.

And although I agree with Edward, that the Anzacs would have suffered more severe losses at Brighton Beach, it's stretching to assume that it "likely would have thrown them back into the sea". Let's not extenuate the assumptions about an event that never occurred when there exists a number of alternate 'likelihoods'.

Tim L.

[Crunchy]

And although I agree with Edward, that the Anzacs would have suffered more severe losses at Brighton Beach, it's stretching to assume that it "likely would have thrown them back into the sea". Let's not extenuate the assumptions about an event that never occurred when there exists a number of alternate 'likelihoods'.

Tim L.

Hi Tim,

I have no argument with you on this point. My point was that a landing on Brighton Beach would have resulted in heavy casualties. I think they would have made it ashore at the northern end of Brighton Beach. While you can see the northern end from Gaba Tepe it is a long way off. I don't think the Turks had the forces to throw the Anzacs back into the sea on the 25th - they only gained local parity with Anzac Corps on the 27th.

Regards

Chris

[Sullivan]

Hi to all, this is my first post so please be gentle.......I have recently become interested in the Gallipoli cause and am currently reading the book Gallipoli by Les Carlyon. This has raised the question of what difference, if any, it would have made if the ANZACS had landed at the right place at the right time? 1ramsey1

Churchill in a discussion about the Gallipoli campaign is supposed to have made the comment -

"The terrible if's - they accumulate..."

The posts have certainly been interesting. I thought Carlyon was reasonably balanced.

Other reading of interest-

Defeat at Gallipoli by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart.

Gallipoli by Robert Rhodes James.

Gallipoli by Alan Moorehead.

Sullivan.