Broznitsky Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 An item on eBay Canada piqued my interest. Have any Pals encountered the Legion of Frontiersmen in their researches? It sounds like it was composed of some of the Empire's best and brightest. Briefly, I have seen references to the Newfoundland Regiment, Manchesters, Canada 210th Btn, and many Australian units. Active in WW2 and still around today. Any comments? Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 Peter In Britain the Frontiersmen formed the 25th (Service)Bn (Frontiersmen) Royal Fusiliers. They served in East Africa until the end of 1917. One of their number, Australian born Lt Wilbur Dartnel won the VC. I believe Capt FC Selous was a member of the organisation and was killed in action as a company commander, aged 66. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Milner Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 Peter The following is from Ray Westlake's book, Kitchener' Army, 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)(Frontiersmen) This battalion was formed by the Legion of Frontiersmen, a self governing military organisation which had been in existence since 1904, with branches throughout the Empire and British Isles, and offered its services on the outbreak of war in 1914. The War Office rejected a proposal by Col Driscoll, the Commandant General, to provide 2000 men to undertake work of a commando nature. Instead the Legion formed the 25th RF who fought with distinction in East Africa. Lt W Dartnell postumously awarded the VC for his gallant action at Maktau 3 Sept 1915. Hope this is hepful John Milner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 See also http://regiments.org/milhist/uk/specfor/frontier.htm For a full history and many photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 There is something vague in my brain - what a surprise! - about Selous Scouts. I am editing this, they were in the wars in Rhodesia and South Africa. CWGC says Selous was 65 and born in London, buried Dar Es Salaam Cemetery Tanzania. He was buried in Chogowali Military Grave, it's lost. Must be same cemetery as above, Special Memorial there. From SDGW I see he held DSO, name Frederick Courteney, no place of birth or enlistment given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 21 August , 2003 Share Posted 21 August , 2003 The Legion of Frontiersmen was founded by Captain Roger Pocock of the Canadian Mounties, a legendary figure who had been Hunter, Pirate, Journalist, Trader, Cowboy, Missionary. He drafted a motto for the corps `To Serve The King And The Nation And To Mount Guard On The Frontiers Of The Empire'. Politicians and explorers were all for accepting so romantic an engagement. On July 24th 1914 His Majesty King Albert of the Belgians asked for volunteers to join the Belgian Army and when 30 Frontiersmen of the Manchester `H' Squadron volunteered the King made them his bodyguard. The next day they were in Ostend, wearing full Legion uniform. The Frontiersmen were called "Colonial Troops', "Colonial Horse" or Canadians because of their uniforms but whatever they were called, the Legion of Frontiersmen were the first British troops to engage the enemy. During the period prior to the British Army taking the field, the Legion with their "parent" body, the 3rd Belgian Lancers, fought bravely and well and when Britain declared war `H' Troop were paraded by King Albert who gave them the singular honour of wearing his country's colours. He decorated every man with the Medaille de l'Yser, Captain Nowell was awarded the Order of the Chevalier of the Crown and Frontiersman Reading the Order of Leopold. They returned to England to a great welcome, paraded at the Cenotaph and were inspected by HRH The Prince of Wales before joining the British Forces in 1915. They also engaged in the P.P.C.L.I. One of their officers, Lieutenant W.Dartnell, was posthumously awarded a V.C. with the 25th Bn Royal Fusiliers whilst fighting in Kenya. They actually went into action before the BEF. They also served in the Gallipoli campaign East Africa and on other fronts. Hope this helps, Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 22 August , 2003 Share Posted 22 August , 2003 Just to continue the Selous theme, Capt F C Selous' son was also killed in action. On 4 January 1918 Capt F H B Selous MC of No 60 Sqn RFC was flying SE5a C5334 when he crashed fatally 1.5 miles east of Menin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brown Posted 22 August , 2003 Share Posted 22 August , 2003 To continue with Cpt Selous:- "Captain Frederick Courtnay Selous , the famous big-game hunter and explorer, had been identified with Africa since 1871. He took part in the Matabeleland Campaign of 1893. Sixty-five years of age , he went to East Africa early in 1915 with The Legion of Frontiersmen and shortly afterwards was transferred to the Frontiersmen's Battalion as Lieutenant . He was awarded the D.S.O. in September last, on the recommendation of General Smutts, " for conspicuous gallantry, resource and endurance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 23 August , 2003 Share Posted 23 August , 2003 (edited) Peter, Jacky has given you a very full and accurate answer, but also try http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1172/history.htm I have in my posession an unpublished account of a 1920's 'pilgrimage' to France and Flanders by veterans of the Frontiersmen, dedicated to "Lt. Col. Sir. Dennis Readett Bayley, KBE, DL, JP, Officer Legion d'honneur, Croix de Guerre etc.". It is entitled 'Down the Menin Road' and written by the elusive 'A. Spy'! It runs to about 20 pages of close-typed text and I'm in the process of OCR-ing the whole thing. When it's available I'll post a note on the forum for anyone who may want MS Word copies. Edited 23 August , 2003 by Andrew Hesketh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 Here is a recommended CEF Study Group website related to this topic .... Borden Battery The Legion of Frontiersmen of the Commonwealth Dec 2005 Formed at the end of 1904 for fellowship and for service to the State at any time of need, the Legion has been the centre of many myths. This website sets the record straight and tells the truth of the extraordinary history of those who served humanity selflessly and often made the greatest sacrifice of all. http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 I have in my posession an unpublished account of a 1920's 'pilgrimage' to France and Flanders by veterans of the Frontiersmen, dedicated to "Lt. Col. Sir. Dennis Readett Bayley, KBE, DL, JP, Officer Legion d'honneur, Croix de Guerre etc.". It is entitled 'Down the Menin Road' and written by the elusive 'A. Spy'! It runs to about 20 pages of close-typed text and I'm in the process of OCR-ing the whole thing. When it's available I'll post a note on the forum for anyone who may want MS Word copies. Andrew ! Have you posted your note yet? I've been looking and haven't found it!! My Great Uncle was a Frontier Man!! starting in England - then in Australia!! - I have a photo in his uniform if you're interested! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 What was the name of your great uncle Annie and his story--did he survive, previous experience etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 Hi Nigel! My Great Uncle was Milner Howarth and the historian of the Frontiersmen feels that he may have been a member of the Legion in the UK before he enlisted in WW1- all the UK Legion records were lost during the "blitz" of WW2. UK military records are not as "open" as are Australian ones - and they are trying to see what they can do for me. Australian Legion records have over the years been kept by the groups in each state with much of it being lost as older members passed away in the 1950's & 60's. The Legion in NSW/Sydney between WW1 and WW2 was very active and they have a number of their records they have checked but can not find "Howarth" in the NSW records from the 1930's. There is much that is missing and we are wondering if he may have re-joined the Legion in Australia during this era He survived - but I'm still delving into family history for more information! Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 To continue with Cpt Selous:- "Captain Frederick Courtnay Selous , the famous big-game hunter and explorer, had been identified with Africa since 1871. He took part in the Matabeleland Campaign of 1893. Sixty-five years of age , he went to East Africa early in 1915 with The Legion of Frontiersmen and shortly afterwards was transferred to the Frontiersmen's Battalion as Lieutenant . He was awarded the D.S.O. in September last, on the recommendation of General Smutts, " for conspicuous gallantry, resource and endurance." I have a book by Captain Selous about the Matabele War. The factual side of R.L.S.' " Prester John". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 22 December , 2005 Share Posted 22 December , 2005 The Legion of Frontiersmen was founded by Captain Roger Pocock of the Canadian Mounties, a legendary figure who had been Hunter, Pirate, Journalist, Trader, Cowboy, Missionary. Hope this helps, Jacky Roger Pocock was the brother of Lena Ashwell, the celebrated entertainer of troops during WWI. (She features elsewhere in the Forrm.) She described them as "men for whom there is no post in the forces, they are spread all over the Empire - experienced scouts and craftsmen who have fought in our wars and have the respect of all our great military leaders". Initially members were aged from 23 to 60, most being around 35, with the Legion providing its own uniforms and receving no government help - which led to an appeal for funds in May 1909. By then, 3,000 men had enrolled and were spread over 17 United Kingdom centres; 2,500 had pledged to fight overseas if called to do so. Attached pic shows the Legion's band at the Whit Carnival in Salisbury in 1910. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 22 December , 2005 Share Posted 22 December , 2005 So Nigel! - are you really interested in the Frontiersmen? - are you doing research of them? do you have contact with the Historian at all? Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 23 December , 2005 Share Posted 23 December , 2005 Annie, Have you checked his MIC. If he was with the Legion and formed the detachment in East Africa, this may be indicated in the "theatre" area of the card as they were out there before 1916. His number may also be indicative f a legion group number. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 23 December , 2005 Share Posted 23 December , 2005 Annie, Have you checked his MIC. If he was with the Legion and formed the detachment in East Africa, this may be indicated in the "theatre" area of the card as they were out there before 1916. His number may also be indicative f a legion group number. Roop Hi Roop! The only card I could find for Milner Howarth - had him with the Seaforth Highlanders!! http://tinyurl.com/9jsen I haven't got it yet - but I have to assume it's his - how many other people would have a name like that?? Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian37 Posted 25 December , 2005 Share Posted 25 December , 2005 Does anyone know if the Frontiersmen still exist as a unit? There No1 dress during the inter war years was a black patrol jacket with what could be described as chain mail epilettes ( identical with patrol jackets of British Cavalry regiments ). Their cavalry breeches were also black with a 2 inch yellow stripe running down the sides of the tousers. They also wore cavalry boots and what could be described as 'Boy Scouts' hats, possibly through the influence of their founder and the Mounties in Canada. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 25 December , 2005 Share Posted 25 December , 2005 (edited) Brian! Here's their web site! http://www.frontiersmen.org.au/Uniform.htm Annie Here's my Uncle Millie! http://static.flickr.com/33/53530546_0927106261_o.jpg Edited 25 December , 2005 by liverpool annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpool annie Posted 3 January , 2006 Share Posted 3 January , 2006 So Nigel!.... Need any help finding your relative?? Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 3 January , 2006 Share Posted 3 January , 2006 I just want photo's of him or the frontiersmen so i can try and pick him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 8 January , 2006 Share Posted 8 January , 2006 Here is some additional information regarding the Frontiersmen organization. Borden Battery "The 210th Frontiersmen Battalion was raised in Moose Jaw by LCol W.E. Seaborn, formerly of the 128th Battalion. The Frontiersmen was an organization of "men who had experience of work or action abroad" who had "come together for comradeship and service to the State in times of need." The 210th was looking for outdoorsmen, men who were used to hardship, and had little trouble in recruiting them. The 210th Battalion embarked for England in April 1917, but like the 128th Battalion, it was broken up and its men assigned to various other units, including the Remount Depot, the Canadian Railway Troops, the Forestry Battalion and the Royal Flying Corps. All NCOs and officers reverted to the ranks of private and lieutenant respectively when reassigned. Some 180 members of the 210th were assigned to the 46th Battalion. 52 were killed in action or died of wounds; 127 were wounded, and three were taken prisoner - a total of 182 casualties for 180 men. The battalion had laid up its colours at St Andrew's Church in Moose Jaw prior to embarking for England. The colours were destroyed in the same fire that destroyed the 46th Battalion's colours. The flagstaff heads survived the fire, and are on display in the Saskatchewan Dragoons Senior Ranks Mess. Much of the preceding information on the 210th Battalion is drawn from an article by Barry William Shandro, Historical & Archives Section, Legion of Frontiersmen of the Commonwealth." Source: http://www.saskd.ca/history.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colb Posted 15 March , 2006 Share Posted 15 March , 2006 My ggf Charles Ernest Bryant was a private in the 25th Frontiersmen. From his medal record he landed in East Africa on 4th May 1915 and was discharged on medical grounds with a Silver War Badge on 21/3/16. Having some trouble finding details - I think he was 53 when he enlisted but must have understated his age to be accepted (in common with many others according to Geoffrey Pococks book 'The Legion of Frontiersmen'). Sounds like a very irregular battalion with a high degree of informality between officers and other ranks when not in action and using innovative guerilla/commando tactics in battle. My ggf was also a trooper in the Natal Mounted Rifles at the seige of Ladysmith during the Anglo Boer War and has an Elandslaagte bar to his Queen Victoria South Africa Medal. Elandslaagte is noted for being one of the last, if not the last, mass formal cavalry charges with lances and sabres - but also for a broken ranks infantry assault using cover, by British troops, rather than the traditional 'shoulder to shoulder' advance which was so devastatingly ineffective against automatic weapons then and later. I'd be interested to hear from anyone with access to more detailed resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 15 March , 2006 Share Posted 15 March , 2006 Colb These are the details I've got in my records for the 25th Royal Fusiliers for your Great Grandfather: GS/13301 Private Charles Ernest Bryant. Enlisted 1st March 1915 Served Overseas in East Africa from 10th April 1915 to 22nd September 1915. Discharged 21st March 1916 according to Para.392 (xvi) K.R. (No longer physically fit for service). Discharge was down to Sickness (this was commonplace for men of the 25th due to the unhealthy climate). Awarded the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal & Silver War Badge (No. 51669). Listed on Medal Roll (NA Reference) WO329/2634 (1914-15 Star), WO329/763 (British War Medal & Victory Medal) & WO329/3038 (Silver War Badge). Hope this helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now