Who Truly Killed Baron Von Richtofen

[marina]

I think it is also accepted that he reported exactly what he saw, and did so honestly. I think it makes him an honest man who at worst was honestly mistaken. I don't feel he's tarnished at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the programme on TV tonight, his report was uncertain about claiming the kill and therefore his reputation is intact. He was later pushed forward by ther authorities as the flyer who killed BVR.

Marina

[Gibbo]

The Channel 4 documentary also quoted documentary evidence that Richtofen's wound would have caused him to die 12-20 seconds after being hit. Alex Imrie, the air historian, stated that he'd been told by one of Richtofen's Jasta (a Bavarian called, I think, Rudolf Stark) that a Fokker Triplane wouldn't have landed properly of its own accord, therefore Richtofen must still have been alive when he landed. A letter held by the IWM was read out. The writer said that his father was the first man on the scene & that Richtofen was still alive but expired after saying one word. According to another eye witness, Brown wasn't firing at Richtofen at the point at which the Triplane started to dive. As pointed out by Marina, Brown's combat report claimed merely that he fired on the Triplane before it headed for the ground, not that he shot it down.

[Borderman]

As I suspected.

Snoopy with a Vickers in the library

[Guest]

I agree as a matter of probability with the conclusion of last night's programme, but nothing will ever be conclusive.

Not beyond all reasonable doubt, but probable.

[aleyoop]

Was not the claim for Roy Brown as the victor pressed by the fledgling RAF, rather than Brown himself?

Ian

According to Carisella and Ryan, Brown's combat report says

At 10:35 A. M. I observed two Albatross burst into flames and crash. Dived on large formation of fifteen to twenty Albatross scouts D. V.’s and Fokker triplanes, two of which got on my tail and I came out. Went back again and dived on pure red triplane which was firing on Lt. May. I got a long burst into him and he went down vertical and was observed to crash by Lieutenant Mellersh and Lieutenant May. I fired on two more but did not get them."

Again according to Carisella Brown claimed in an article entitled "My Fight with Richthofen" which was published in the late '20's

"I was in a perfect position above and behind. ... neither plane, (Richthofen or May) was aware of me ... I had dived until the red snout of my Camel pointed fair at his tail. My thumbs pressed the triggers. Bullets ripped into his elevator and tail planes. The flaming tracers showed me where they hit. A little short! Gently I pulled back on the stick. The nose of the Camel rose ever so slightly. Easy now, easy. The stream of bullets tore along the body of the all-red tripe. Its occupant turned and looked back. I had a flash of his eyes behind the goggles. Then he crumpled - sagged In the cockpit ... Richthofen was dead. The triplane staggered, wobbled, stalled, flung over on its nose and went down. The reserve trenches of the Australian infantry was (sic) not more than 200 feet below. It was a quick descent. May saw it. I saw it as I swung over. And Mellersh saw it."

Brown was credited with the biggest scalp of the war. No surprise that he contined to make the claim.

Franks reported in his book that Ernest Twycross claimed to have been the first to reach the dying von Richthofen and heard him say "Alles ist kaput". The story came from Twycross’ son. He said that his father (Twycross) told him in 1970 that he (Ernest Twycross) was the first to reach von Richthofen and heard him mutter the words. There is no earlier record of the claim by Twycross.