Bangalore torpedoes

[armourersergeant]

I was at Birmingham University yesterday and one of the chaps asked a question about the Bangalore torpedo.

We had been listening to an interesting, if heavy, talk on Barbed Wire and it came up that some US units were using them in 1918, or atleast training with them.

I had never heard of these being and had rather thought they were a WW2 invention. In transpired they were 1912 or close to this and thus ready available for the Great War.

Anyway this chap wondered if anyone had heard of there use during the war, as it seemed like an ideal weapon to clear areas through unbroken wire!

We did obviously discuss the thought that the PBI did not fancy carrying a large tub of explosive out into a hail of small arms and artillery shells! but surely this would not have been paramont on High Commands minds if it would have done the job!

So I was wondering if anyone had any examples of this weapon in use in WW1 or could offer a reason as to why not?

regards

Arm

[Paul Nixon]

Arm

They were definitely in use during WW1 and their use is well documented in various Great war memoirs (although I can't remember any of the latter to refer you to).

Wikipedia has this to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangalore_Torpedo

There's also a WFA article by Dr David Payne here: http://www.westernfront.co.uk/thegreatwar/...loretorpedo.htm

Paul (in Bangalore and not a torpedo in sight)

[Andy Shaw]

Arm,

In the muster roll of 'C' Company, 9th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers for the 1st July, There are 3 Bangalore Torpedoe carriers listed and 2 men listed as Bangalore Torpedoe Specialists!

Regards

Andy

[Simon Jones]

their use is well documented in various Great war memoirs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

V F Eberle's My Sapper Venture has a good account from April 1916.

Simon

[truthergw]

So I was wondering if anyone had any examples of this weapon in use in WW1 or could offer a reason as to why not?

regards

Arm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was discussed before on the forum. The opening scene of "Saving Private Ryan " shows one in use. WW2 I know, but it was a very simple weapon and would not have changed much.

[Muerrisch]

Dr Dunn's The War the Infantry Knew.

Frank Richards's Old Soldiers Never Die.

[Desmond7]

Arm - see this thread ... bangalores came up here with some good input on the very subject you mention.

Des

 

 

[Simon Jones]

Desmond7 said:

Arm - see this thread ... bangalores came up here with some good input on the very subject you mention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Des

The reference here seems to confuse Bangalore Torpedoes with flamethrowers.

Regards

Simon

[Desmond7]

As I say on the thread ...

Thanks to Liam Larneman for drawing my attention to this tantalising snippet from Billy Bittles' Somme site:-

In the final battle over the third line, came a chance to employ the ‘Bangalore Tube’ (a kind of flame thrower used to burn wire) for unorthodox purposes :

“A squad of German soldiers went from the trench to the dugout...these soldiers of ours...managed to get the tubes burning and pushed them into the dugout where the Germans were. We were a right distance away but we could smell the burning flesh as the Germans inside their dugout were burnt to death”.

This is a reference to an action on 1st July ... but you can't help wondering about Bangalore/flamethrower as a possible connection which has got mixed up down through the years?

[healdav]

I have seen a photo of what was said to be a bangalore, but it was some years ago and I can't remember where.

This thing was a long series of pipes that looked about the size of water pipes with a very large head on the end. It was something that could have been gradually pushed out from a trench, but definitely not something you could run up a beach with.

[Paul Reed]

When I first visited the Newfoundland Park 25+ years ago, there were bangalore torpedoes lying in shell holes close to the German wire - probably very close to where they were dropped in 1916. The 29th Division war diaries make mention of them being carried in the assault waves, but I think so few ever got close to the wire, they were not used.

There is no trace of these items in the park today, sadly.

[awakefield]

Hi Arm

I've seen acouple of mentions of Bangalore Torpedoes being used out in Salonika. I believe there is even a cartoon in the 107th Field Company's history of an NCO carrying one of these on his way to winning a MM.

I'll see if I can dig the references out over the weekend.

ALAN

[truthergw]

This thing was a long series of pipes that looked about the size of water pipes with a very large head on the end. It was something that could have been gradually pushed out from a trench, but definitely not something you could run up a beach with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the time of WW2 the pipes were about 40mm diameter. Like a set of plumbers drain rods, they were attached together one by one and extended in this way under the wire before detonation. Better explosives available I expect.

[healdav]

Yes, I was thropwn a bit when I saw it. It was the caption to the photo that said what it was.

Quite enormous; I reckon a few of those and there really wouldn;t have been any wire left on the Somme.

[Chris Henschke]

The CRE 51st Division submitted a paper dated 6 Sep 1916 regarding an experiment with torpedoes made from both sheet iron and various diameters of waterpipe. This was later promulgated as 'E in C Fieldworks Notes No. 6'.

attached is a digram from this paper.

Chris Henschke

[Chris Henschke]

Three forms German bangalore torpedoes were reported in the middle of 1917. In two of them the handle portion of the “Stick” hand grenade was used as the firing device ; in the third, a friction igniter similar to the one in the “Egg” hand grenade, with a length of safety fuze, was employed.

In two, the charge consisted of 1 kg packets of Perdit in damp-proof cardboard boxes (in one case with the addition of a few slabs of dynamite).

In the third torpedo the charge was packed in a 3-inch zinc pipe.

Torpedo No. 1 (reported by 3rd Division on 27 July 1917) was 9 ft 6 ins long, and consisted of ten 1 kg packets of Perdit, wired to a deal plank, and covered with a sheet of zinc painted black.

Torpedo No. 2 (reported by 502nd (Wessex) Field Coy. R.E.) was 9 ft 8 ins long and also contained ten 1 kg packets of Perdit, but with seven slabs of dynamite, interpolated between Nos. 1 and 2, packed in a wooden box.

Torpedo No. 3 (reported by CRE 35th Division on 22 July 1917) consisted of a 7 ft length of ordinary 3 in zinc water-piping filled with an explosive which appeared to be Perdit.

Attached is a diagram of the three types.

Chris Henschke

[spike10764]

Arm,

Here is a link to what First World War.com has to say on Bangalore Torpedoes. The gist of which being that they were invented in India in 1912, by a British Captain.

I also recall seeing a clip of film of one being carried into action in either the series the Great War, or maybe the 1914-1918 (narrated by Dame Judy Dench)series shown on the UK History channel on Sky. I think it may have been the latter.

[armourersergeant]

Blimey guys,

I guess i should have done search but..

thanks for all the info it is really fascinating, Ishall pass it on.

regards

Arm.

[Cliff. Hobson]

MENTIONED in DESPATCHES. Pte. E. Whyles, Sherwood Foresters. March 1916.

( Letter to Home) Reason for me being mentioned was because we went over the parapet with two other fellows . We took a torpedo with us about 12 feet long we had to put it under the German barbed wire . As we got there it was twice as heavy through all the mud sticking to it. the Germans were firing at us so we rested for half an hour in a shell hole. They must have thought we had gone back because they did not fire any more, as we got near we could hear them laughing and talking, we were two hours on the job and covered in sludge. We put it straight under a Snipers loop hole, so just imagine it would have been all up for us if they had heard us. I had a drop of rum when we got back I could hardly stand let alone walk, it was the third time over the top.

[armourersergeant]

Hi Arm

I've seen acouple of mentions of Bangalore Torpedoes being used out in Salonika. I believe there is even a cartoon in the 107th Field Company's history of an NCO carrying one of these on his way to winning a MM.

I'll see if I can dig the references out over the weekend.

ALAN

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very surprised to here of examples out here. Be glad to see anything in regard to this.

Alan did you get my very late subs for SCS?

regards

Arm

[armourersergeant]

Chris,

Really interested to see the diagram and info on German bagalore torpedoes. It shows surely that they were not just a 'British' thing.

One would assume they got the idea from captured ones?

regards

Arm

[Jacky Platteeuw]

This is the entry on the Menin Gate for

SMITH, Lieutenant, CYRIL ALDIN, D S O, R.N. Div. Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve attd. H.Q. 6th Div. 10th June 1916. Age 39. Son of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Smith, of Redington Rd., Hampstead, London; husband of Mrs. Madge Aldin-Smith. Commissioned R.M., 26th Sept., 1914, and 1st March, 1915; served at Antwerp; Commissioned R.N.V.R. 11th Sept., 1915, and lent to 6th Inf. Div. D.S.O. April, 1916, for work against enemy trenches; developed use of bullet-proof shields and Bangalore torpedoes; known as The Admiral. Addenda Panel 57.

Quit a remarcable men as you can see. He is the only Naval entry on the Menin Gate. As far as I know the well known 'Admiral's Road' was named after him. He disappeared mysteriously whilst trying out a transportable bullet-proof shield which was considered as an 'embryonic ?' tank. This happened around Wieltje in the Salient.

Jacky

[bob lembke]

Guys;

I have read a lot about German Pioniere, mostly in German sources, and I have seen mention of Bangalore torpedoes used, but no details. Also, in a hand grenade manual, I have seen a diagram of one made by wiring a series of stick grenade heads to a board, with a whole one as a detonator. One could tie a cord to the pull cord to extend it to detonate the device safely.

I have seen many mentions of different explosives used by the pioneers much more often, including sacks or bags of grenades, dynamite, and the incendiary device called the Brandrohe[/], or "flame tube" or "fire tube".

The Bangalore is not an incinderary device.

I don't know if the British ever used a small flame thrower in combat. They certainly did not in 1917, when Z Company of the Special Brigade was not able to operate any sort of FW.

Bob Lembke

[Malte Znaniecki]

Thank You, CHRIS, JACKY amd BOB. Great supplies !

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

If memory serves I recall reading an account of them being used in a pre-attack raid before 1 July 1916 near the Leipzig Redoubt (Granatloch) where the pioneers (Sappers) were killed and prevented from using the Bangalore torpedoes by men from RIR 99.

Similar items were used by the French in 1915, in one account a wheeled contraption loaded with explosives that probably would have been driven into the wire and detonated.

Ralph