2nd Gaza

[wroclaw]

Yes please!!!

Particurly interested in the country between Waddi  Ghuzzi  leading to the Atawineh Redoubt.

If I could beg a favour, please say a prayer for me,for the Light Horse men and all men, who died at Beersheba.

Regards

Kim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That area was terribly distorted in the times that had padded since the Great War, and it would be hard to imagine the way it looked. The Atawineh ridge is now included in the villages of Kefar Maymon and Tushiya – the first became really famous last summer when 10,000's of protestors tried to reach the area the IDF was about to pull out from in the Gaza strip. In order to avoid clashes spread all over the area, the police and army had encircled the protestors right on that very ridge…. After a long and hot 24 hours they spread back to their homes, thus marking the end of the whole protest movement against the pull out.

Many other landmarks known from the above map were up until a year ago, the stage of random and fierce fights between the army and insurgents coming from the strip. I have spent about 100 days since year 2000 in that very area as part of my reserve service. The whole area around the "Mansura ridge", where the ANZAQ memorial is now, was heavy battered by the heavy armored vehicles patrolling the line… I have many photos from the area, but all were taken not in correlation with the Great War battles.

If you wish to know little more, you could check this site:

http://www.amudanan.com/

It’s a free site where an old Soviet 1:50,000 map was correlated to a modern Arial photo and the old PEF map from the 19th century. It's in Hebrew so navigation would be hard for a start, so follow my instructions:

Run over the Hebrew sentence in the 2nt field from top (with the grey button on its left), write "ata" instead and press the grey button. The map would change into the area of Attawineh with the modern village's with Russian names above it. You could change the scale and change between the modern/PEF and aerial maps. From this point you could follow the terrain of the entire line of the great war – the PEF is most useful fro that matter.

[stevenbecker]

Thanks Mate,

I like the older maps you can switch to to see now the area has changed.

yes the Village you mention is on top of the so called Tank Redoubt captured by the mixed Australian soldiers from the Camel Corps and British Infantry from the 1/5th Norfolks and 8 Hant's.

Of cause they have built over the possible graves of over twenty Camel Corps soldiers who have no known grave and were killed and lost in that area.

I wonder if those in Australia and else ware can see that side of it when we go on about some road works on Gallipoli and of possibly disturbing the lost graves of our dead.

Cheers

S.B

[wroclaw]

Thanks Mate,

I like the older maps you can switch to to see now the area has changed.

yes the Village you mention is on top of the so called Tank Redoubt captured by the mixed Australian soldiers from the Camel Corps and British Infantry from the 1/5th Norfolks and 8 Hant's.

Of cause they have built over the possible graves of over twenty Camel Corps soldiers who have no known grave and were killed and lost in that area.

I wonder if those in Australia and else ware can see that side of it when we go on about some road works on Gallipoli and of possibly disturbing the lost graves of our dead.

Cheers

S.B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don’t know what effort had the British authorities made to locate graves of unknown KIA that were buried in the field, but they had 31 years to find them. Since other graves, in areas where fighting was only for a day or two, were located and exhumed, I believe they did some worth mentioning effort. The area where the front lone had been, was extensively used by the British army for its bases in that period and large part of it was turned into a quarry of minerals that were actually first discovered when the WWI trenches were dug.

My experience as an archaeologist, and specifically with that area, is that human remains are quickly turned into dust and are hard to find even within a decade after burial time. I know of a small memorial stone put in memory of an Australian soldier who was killed in some field in today's central Israel. His boy was later exhumed and moved to Ramla, and that stone been put there in memory. During the time passed. Someone had turned it on its face and it was only discovered by mistake in the 1970's. The memorial obelisk erected in the grounds of the Ayun Kara battlefield, which I research, had totally vanished already during the British mandate. I also know of field graves that were exhumed by grave robbers right after the battle. I know this had happened near Rafa.

[Ozzie]

How sad. They live on in our memories and history.

Cheers

Kim

[wroclaw]

How sad. They live on in our memories and  history.

Cheers

Kim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have just returned from a tour of that very area, and specificly the small hill in the center of the "tank redoubt". The current terrain is so different then what it was back then - not only man made changes had happend, but also the trenches had changed the whole natural system of rain water flow, which caused a major change.

Still, some experts who guided us gave some remarkebke notes and interpetation about the influence of the terrain on both sides - things you would never pay attantion on a short visit, but since they have been living there all their lives, they had notices. I also got reports on random human bones beind discovered in the killing zone south of tank redoubt. Nothing more then fragments though...

Ive got some panorama pictures and more reports from the entire Ras a Naqeb - Tel Shari'a - Gaza line, but its now late at night, so I'll do that tomrrow.

The picture shows the location of the knocked out tank - beer trenches location is just before the tree line on the left.

[Ozzie]

Great stuff, mate. Can't wait for further posts.

Cheers

Kim

[Ozzie]

Great stuff, mate. Can't wait for further posts.

Cheers

Kim

[Jerrymurland]

As part of the 74th div, the Sussex Yeomanry (by then the 16th Batt. Royal Sussex) were at the second battle of Gaza. Battalion history tells us that on 17th April when the battle began 74th Div were in reserve, on being ordered into battle the order was countermanded and the Batt. used to cover the right exposed flank which had received 'a very severe mauling'.

[Ozzie]

Thanks mate.

Cheers

Kim