the law on deactivated weapons

[Guest]

The deac trade had already caused a knock-on effect on the price of active SMLEs. With so many being deactivated, there are fewer decent ones around to be bought if you actually shoot them.

With regard to the SMLEs, I think that it is a travesty that it was legally necessary to deactivate what are, essentially, antique items with a real history. The deactivation process is disappointingly destructive.

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You can't have it both ways. The reason people want to shoot them is because they are anything but antique in practical terms. They are modern bolt action rifles in every sense of the word.

[Horace Bachelor]

that is one of the possibilities - by making safe weapons unobtainable they will force people who do living history displays to apply for live and potentially dangerous weapons.

Alistair

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I think you would be in a spot of bother if you used an undeactivated weapon for re-enactment purposes. At the very least, you would lose your FAC.

Rich.

[Devils Own]

You can't have it both ways. The reason people want to shoot them is because they are anything but antique in practical terms. They are modern bolt action rifles in every sense of the word.

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Indeed but I think that people fire them for the historical experience. They were fantastic battle rifles but people wanting to engage in criminal activities with a rifle might be more likely to acquire something of a more common calibre with greater modern accuracy like 7.62 or .223.

[Devils Own]

I think you would be in a spot of bother if you used an undeactivated weapon for re-enactment purposes. At the very least, you would lose your FAC.

Rich.

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I must admit that I don't know too much about the re-enactment groups. I was curious though at the recent show in Kent about the fact that they were carrying out a mock Mons battle and were obviously firing blanks in their guns. Does this mean that these were active rifles and these guys had FACs? They were using chargers and were ejecting normally. They even had a Vickers and it wasn't a gas operated theatrical job either as it kept on jamming.

Steve

[AB64]

I think you would be in a spot of bother if you used an undeactivated weapon for re-enactment purposes. At the very least, you would lose your FAC.

Rich.

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Reenactment is considered an acceptable reason for the granting of an FAC - a firing rifle is essential for the reenacting side of things as their are no blank firing rifles - for the living history side of things deactivated weapons are preferable but even then live weapons can be used and are in some cases neccesary if your living history display includes firepower displays.

Alistair

[Devils Own]

Reenactment is considered an acceptable reason for the granting of an FAC - a firing rifle is essential for the reenacting side of things as their are no blank firing rifles - for the living history side of things deactivated weapons are preferable but even then live weapons can be used and are in some cases neccesary if your living history display includes firepower displays.

Alistair

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Presumably there is an FAC restriction and limitation to purchase of only blank ammunition?

Steve

[AB64]

To go back to Steves question - many reenactors have live and deactivated rifles, what they use depends on the event - for a private battle they use the live rifle (as I say you dont get blank firing rifles) and fire blanks through them - at public shows where they stand on a display and do no firing they take along the deactivated weapons (ease of transpot and storage etc and just less hassle) - for shows where their is some standing about talking to the public and a small battle or firepower display they take along both and for the standing around they have the deacs with the live wepons locked away and when it comes to the time they need to fire they break out the live weapons and return them to the gun cabinet once the firing is done. In the case of the Vickers, these and all automatic weapons can only be held on a special licence (section 5) and their are very few of licenced people about - certain licenced dealers turn up at big events and hire them to pre approved reenactors for the duration of the battle (their are strict security procedures on the hiring) - I am not sure if any groups out their have their own live firing Vickers. As I do WW2 I have access to purpose built blank firing machine guns (stens etc), but when it comes to a rifle that goes bang then live is still the only option.

Alistair

[AB64]

Presumably there is an FAC restriction and limitation to purchase of only blank ammunition?

Steve

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When you apply for your FAC if you are putting for Reenactment purposes as the reason for the certificate, its basically the done thing to add a condition that forbids you owning live ammunition (basically as you reason for ownership doesnt require it). Blank ammunition isnt controlled and can be openly bought without a certificate or anything like that - their may be some restrictions if you get into large quantities, and I believe the component parts (black powder and primers) are controlled as they are also the components of live ammunition.

Alistair

[Horace Bachelor]

Sorry Alistair,

I stand corrected.

Rich.

[AB64]

Its OK, I am just glad to find a place on the forum where I can answer questions rather than just ask them - I feel like I am taking without giving.

Alistair

[Devils Own]

Its OK, I am just glad to find a place on the forum where I can answer questions rather than just ask them - I feel like I am taking without giving.

Alistair

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OK Alastair here's another question then:

In your travels in WWII mode do you see many Lee Enfield MKIV sniper versions or even Australian MKIII HT snipers? There seem to be plenty in the States. I would really like to get hold of an active one.

Cheers

Steve

[AB64]

On No4 (T) sniper rifles - I bought a deactivated one last year, and it tends to be deacs I see (thats what I look for) - I think I have been told the best place to get them in the UK is RIFLE as they are a bit of a speciality of theirs - when I was looking for my deac I emailed them and all they had at the time was a live one - I will double check thats who it was I was refered to.

On the Aussie ones - I wouldnt even know one of them if I saw it, sorry.

Alistair

[AB64]

It probably isnt RIFLE - I just tried a quick search on the net and they had "legal" problems not long ago - I will find the email when I get home and post the right company name

Alistair

[priv]

Have seen a couple of live No4(T)'s in the last year - as I was searching for a good standard No 4. They are either available through the likes of Fultons or other dealers - some of whom advertise on guntrader.co.uk.

I have never seen a Lithgow MkIII Heavy barrelled Sniper rifle live, I have only ever seen one deactivated - and having seen that it looked like several rifles cobbled together.

Good luck with your search, I will ask at my local Classic & Historic meeting tomorrow if anyone knows of a live No4(T) and PM if there is anything around - that is often the best way to find good shooters, though you have to be patient as they come along like London Buses !

[AB64]

Lock Stock and Barrel is the place I meant to say - they are supposed to be a good source - they have a website but I cant find it (and being at work in a busy office its not ideal to search for gun shops)

Alistair

[Devils Own]

Lock Stock and Barrel is the place I meant to say - they are supposed to be a good source - they have a website but I cant find it (and being at work in a busy office its not ideal to search for gun shops)

Alistair

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Cheers Alastair

I know what you mean about looking at guns on the net when people are watching. My wife always catches me at it. Makes it sound worse than porn. At work you'd get the reputation of being the office psycho. I will try to track down the site you mentioned.

There's a US site called gunbroker.com that has some great stuff on it. Last week they had a MKIV No2 straight from the Fazakerley factory still stored in its original wrapper and cosmoline for only $770. They had a picture of a cleaned and unwrapped one and it looked great. 1955 dated though.

Cheers

Steve

[Devils Own]

Have seen a couple of live No4(T)'s in the last year - as I was searching for a good standard No 4. They are either available through the likes of Fultons or other dealers - some of whom advertise on guntrader.co.uk.

I have never seen a Lithgow MkIII Heavy barrelled Sniper rifle live, I have only ever seen one deactivated - and having seen that it looked like several rifles cobbled together.

Good luck with your search, I will ask at my local Classic & Historic meeting tomorrow if anyone knows of a live No4(T) and PM if there is anything around - that is often the best way to find good shooters, though you have to be patient as they come along like London Buses !

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Thanks for that Priv

I think that some of these snipers are actually home made. I've seen some really nice ones on US sites but they are going for up to $5,000. Wouldn't like to think what they would be here.

Cheers

Steve

[Devils Own]

Thanks for that Priv

I think that some of these snipers are actually home made. I've seen some really nice ones on US sites but they are going for up to $5,000. Wouldn't like to think what they would be here.

Cheers

Steve

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Sorry Priv

All that stuff about the MKIV was meant to reply to your post as you mentioned that MK.

Steve

[Devils Own]

I'm all over the place today. Of course, I am talking about No.4 MKIs.

[Guest Hill 60]

and will i get them back as they cost me a small fortune,what is the law with them

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If you don't get them back within a reasonable length of time, and I'd say 2-3 weeks is plenty of time, then write a letter of complaint to the Police Complaints Authority.

About 10 years ago I had a call from a WPC and a Special. They had recieved a report that I was in possession of an illeagal handgun. The only gun I had (at that time) was a blank firing Walther PPK and the only person, outside of my family, who knew I had it was a recently-made ex-girlfriend (who happened to be an ex-WPC).

The Special took one look at the pistol and said, "That's a blank firer, it says so on the side". He then pointed out to the WPC that the barrel was totally blocked just inside the muzzle so was incapable of firing a live round.

Anyhoo, she took the pistol away and that was the last time I saw it for over a year! Despite repeated phone calls to her office, and the Firearms Officer, I was fobbed off with all sorts of excuses.....until I wrote to the PCA. Within 5 days of writing to them the pistol was returned and a day later I had a letter from the Chief Constable apologizing for his officers taking more than 2 weeks to confirm what the Special had pointed out.

Boy, am I glad the Police didn't stop my father and I last Wednesday when we went to the WFA branch in Kingswood!!! We had 11 pistols in the boot of the car...and I walked across a main road carrying them in a clear plastic box

[bravo7165]

If you don't get them back within a reasonable length of time, and I'd say 2-3 weeks is plenty of time, then write a letter of complaint to the Police Complaints Authority.

About 10 years ago I had a call from a WPC and a Special. They had recieved a report that I was in possession of an illeagal handgun. The only gun I had (at that time) was a blank firing Walther PPK and the only person, outside of my family, who knew I had it was a recently-made ex-girlfriend (who happened to be an ex-WPC).

The Special took one look at the pistol and said, "That's a blank firer, it says so on the side". He then pointed out to the WPC that the barrel was totally blocked just inside the muzzle so was incapable of firing a live round.

Anyhoo, she took the pistol away and that was the last time I saw it for over a year! Despite repeated phone calls to her office, and the Firearms Officer, I was fobbed off with all sorts of excuses.....until I wrote to the PCA. Within 5 days of writing to them the pistol was returned and a day later I had a letter from the Chief Constable apologizing for his officers taking more than 2 weeks to confirm what the Special had pointed out.

Boy, am I glad the Police didn't stop my father and I last Wednesday when we went to the WFA branch in Kingswood!!! We had 11 pistols in the boot of the car...and I walked across a main road carrying them in a clear plastic box

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thanks for that informaition

the two detectives turned up on friday and brought some kind of reciept around stating stopped for firearms, i have written a five page letter to the cheif inspector which i will send on monday, they said they could see the butt of one the rifles if they could or not i dont know, but in any case it wasnt hard to see what i was carrying under the wrapping and they couldnt lose by serching me if it hadnt been anything it would have been sorry and on your way. you know how the police are the uniformed officer said i cant see you getting these back mate, they better think again as i have both original deac certs with the rifles and if i dont get them back i will be looking for re payment off nottingam police. i have not been charged with any thing and will not be letting it drop. and if i have no joy from the inspector i will contact the police complaints as you did. i dont mind being stopped and checked by the police, there doing there job, but when they start saying you wont get them back is not on when they are legal deacs i had just purchased and was on my way home with.

thanks for your reply

[Guest Hill 60]

I can't see why the Police would refuse to give them back if they are legit. Unless they have a damn good reason (i.e. have a criminal record that would prevent you from having a de-ac, and off the top of my head I can't think of any situation where that would happen, unless you have a record of using de-acs for criminal activity) then they have to return them to you.

I would approach the PCA straight away. Knowing your luck (if it's anything like mine) the Police will probably destroy your guns.

[bravo7165]

I can't see why the Police would refuse to give them back if they are legit. Unless they have a damn good reason (i.e. have a criminal record that would prevent you from having a de-ac, and off the top of my head I can't think of any situation where that would happen, unless you have a record of using de-acs for criminal activity) then they have to return them to you.

I would approach the PCA straight away. Knowing your luck (if it's anything like mine) the Police will probably destroy your guns.

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hi again

no i havent been in trouble with the law, if they did destroy them i will be making a claim against them for the refund of the cost as like i said they have the deac certs with them and i will get the letter off to the inspector in the morning

thanks mate

[Max Poilu]

As I posted earlier a deac certificate is not a legal requirement (although it helps in this situation), the guns are deactivated and proof marked as such. That being the case you have broken no law. Technically speaking in the eyes of the law once deactivated they are not guns anymore, they may look like guns but they are not guns. I have no idea why you should not get them back, you have a right to keep them. For any other potential buyers the most important thing is to keep them fully covered up in a public place and carry them in the boot of your car - never on the back seat etc. And make sure you have a provable legitimate reason for having them with you, ie just purchased and transporting them home, on your way to a re-enactor event etc.

As has been reported many times you are up against law makers and enforcers whose first reaction is "Why on earth would anyone want to collect such a thing anyway...?". They have no concept of the interest of an innocent historical collector. We are lumped together with the Chavs, gun criminals and would be 'gangstas' of this modern Britain.

[bravo7165]

As I posted earlier a deac certificate is not a legal requirement (although it helps in this situation), the guns are deactivated and proof marked as such.  That being the case you have broken no law.  Technically speaking in the eyes of the law once deactivated they are not guns anymore, they may look like guns but they are not guns.   I have no idea why you should not get them back, you have a right to keep them.  For any other potential buyers the most important thing is to keep them fully covered up in a public place and carry them in the boot of your car - never on the back seat etc.  And make sure you have a provable legitimate reason for having them with you, ie just purchased and transporting them home, on your way to a re-enactor event etc.

As has been reported many times you are up against law makers and enforcers whose first reaction is "Why on earth would anyone want to collect such a thing anyway...?".  They have no concept of the interest of an innocent historical collector.  We are lumped together with the Chavs, gun criminals and would be 'gangstas' of this modern Britain.

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how true giles

but now that does sound like my two teenage kids your discribing,