Guest mccormick Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 I have just found out that one of my husbands grandfathers deserted on the 17th December 1917. Is there anyway I can find out more about him and what happened? I know he was in the 6th Enniskillens and I assume deserted in London as he wasn't shot!!! Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 If his service record survived then details - where absconded from, correspondence re alerting police etc, might be on file. Some locations also published lists in local newspapers of those that went awol - either having served or having been called up - in the hope that some acquantance had seen them and would report it. There may also be a follow up report if he had turned himslef in or been found at a local address. Its a bit of a trawl but its worth looking if access to such records are easily available to you. Presuming he was Court martialled then I am sure what remains of Court Martial files when death penalty was not carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Gray Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 I have just found out that one of my husbands grandfathers deserted on the 17th December 1917. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good job it's one of your husbands, then! Seriously, do let us know what and where you find - after ten years of family history, I find that often the rascals are the most fun to research - good luck with him! (and if he'd seen the front, I don't blame him either). Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mccormick Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 As if that's not bad enough I have found out that he also left his wife and 5 children around 1920 for my husbands Grandmother......changed his name from Reginald Gray to Robert McCormick and went on to have another 7 children. He is a very hard man to find out about!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 I assume deserted in London as he wasn't shot!!!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> He could have deserted elsewhere without being shot. Out of 2004 death sentences passed for desertion, only 272 were actually carried out. Many thousands more didn't recieve such a hefty sentence - your relative being one of them. He doesn't appear in any list of soldiers who were given the death sentence (whether or not it was carried out). Dave. (as a point of interest, the Skins had 25 soldiers sentenced to death throughout the war, of which 5 were executed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 I have been through Julian Putkowski's 'British Army Mutineers 1914 - 1922' and cannot anyone listed for that date or unit. No Reginald Grays or McComicks in the alphabetical listing either. Was he a bigamist too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 I have been through Julian Putkowski's 'British Army Mutineers 1914 - 1922' and cannot anyone listed for that date or unit. No Reginald Grays or McComicks in the alphabetical listing either. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ditto for "Death Sentences passed by military courts...1914-24" by Gerard Oram. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mccormick Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 No he wasn't a bigamist, he never married my husbands grandmother.....I've got his army number.....or so I've been told it is...D/9779...and that is how I found out he had deserted. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFF Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 On UK "documentsonline" is a Medal Card for Gray, Reginald D/9779 Private 6th Dragoons at W0 372/8 (note checking catalogue is free but a downloaded record must be purchased in ENglish money) Prehaps he was "forgiven" his deseration? Preahps the Regimental Museum can be of help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Hello The MIC and/or medal rolls may say if he deserted Ian On UK "documentsonline" is a Medal Card for Gray, Reginald D/9779 Private 6th Dragoons at W0 372/8 (note checking catalogue is free but a downloaded record must be purchased in ENglish money) Prehaps he was "forgiven" his deseration? Preahps the Regimental Museum can be of help? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Kate Does the book list soldiers my Regiment ? I have a couple of medals to deserters in the Coldstream Guards and wondered if the Regiment had any mutineers - as I was suprised how many seem to have deserted just from the figures I know. Ian I have been through Julian Putkowski's 'British Army Mutineers 1914 - 1922' and cannot anyone listed for that date or unit. No Reginald Grays or McComicks in the alphabetical listing either. Was he a bigamist too? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Hello From a research point of view this isnt terrible but very interesting Ian I have just found out that one of my husbands grandfathers deserted on the 17th December 1917. Is there anyway I can find out more about him and what happened? I know he was in the 6th Enniskillens and I assume deserted in London as he wasn't shot!!! Many thanks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mccormick Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 It is very interesting I know but soooo frustrating as I can't really can't find out anything the man!!! I found out about the desertion on the archives website....but can't find anything more out about him. Does anyone know if photographs were taken when the men signed up for the war......as I've just had another thought........perhaps he changed his name to become Reginald Gray......who knows with this man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Kate Does the book list soldiers my Regiment ? I have a couple of medals to deserters in the Coldstream Guards Ian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why would a book on mutineers list deserters? The Death Sentences one lists all those who were sentenced to death for desertion (even if the sentence wasn't carried out) for all regiments. (8 death sentences for the Coldstreams, 1 carried out) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Sorry . too busy typing and not thinking ! will amend the post Ian Why would a book on mutineers list deserters? The Death Sentences one lists all those who were sentenced to death for desertion (even if the sentence wasn't carried out) for all regiments. Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Dave Can you list those Coldstream Gds for me sentanced but not executed Thanks Ian It is very interesting I know but soooo frustrating as I can't really can't find out anything the man!!! I found out about the desertion on the archives website....but can't find anything more out about him. Does anyone know if photographs were taken when the men signed up for the war......as I've just had another thought........perhaps he changed his name to become Reginald Gray......who knows with this man? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Dave Can you list those Coldstream Gds for me sentanced but not executed Thanks Ian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be honest, I'd have to go through every name in the book (3,000 +) as they're arranged in either date or alphabetical order rather than listed by unit. If you could throw some names at me, then I can check them for you. (here're some though - Pte. Bartle H., 1/Coldstream Guards, sentenced 20/12/15, desertion, commuted to 3yrs penal servitude. Another (same unit, date, offense, and final sentence) was Pte.Saville J.W.. Yet another was Pte.W.T.H. Phillips, 1/Coldstreams, sentenced 24/5/16 for desertion, but, as you'll know, he was executed on 30/5/16. Found another - Pte.Marples T., 2/Coldstreams, sentenced to death for desertion 6/10/16, commuted to 5yrs penal servitude. Another was Pte.Jackson.J, 2/Coldstreams, sentenced 25/10/17 for desertion, commuted to 5 yrs PS.. Next was Pte.Baker H., 3/Coldstreams, sentenced for desertion 8/11/17, commuted to 5 yrs PS. The next one was a lucky man! - Pte.Burgess H., 2/Coldstreams, sentenced on 18/7/18 for 3 cases of desertion and for escaping from custody, commuted to 5 yrs PS) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 To be honest, I'd have to go through every name in the book (3,000 +) as they're arranged in either date or alphabetical order rather than listed by unit. If you could throw some names at me, then I can check them for you. (here're some though - Pte. Bartle H., 1/Coldstream Guards, sentenced 20/12/15, desertion, commuted to 3yrs penal servitude. Another (same unit, date, offense, and final sentence) was Pte.Saville J.W.. Yet another was Pte.W.T.H. Phillips, 1/Coldstreams, sentenced 24/5/16 for desertion, but, as you'll know, he was executed on 30/5/16. Found another - Pte.Marples T., 2/Coldstreams, sentenced to death for desertion 6/10/16, commuted to 5yrs penal servitude. Another was Pte.Jackson.J, 2/Coldstreams, sentenced 25/10/17 for desertion, commuted to 5 yrs PS.. Next was Pte.Baker H., 3/Coldstreams, sentenced for desertion 8/11/17, commuted to 5 yrs PS. The next one was a lucky man! - Pte.Burgess H., 2/Coldstreams, sentenced on 18/7/18 for 3 cases of desertion and for escaping from custody, commuted to 5 yrs PS) Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just realised - I've found them all bar one there! I'll look for the last one later. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Hello Thanks very much - I have a medal to Saville - later KIA or was he ?! Do you have a record of his offence ? The other from memory are Murphy and Cooney (DCM winner) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Hi Susan, Welcome to the forum. We share the same surname, and oddly enough my grandmother was also deserted by her husband during the same time period, leaving her with two young children to raise here in Canada. Years ago we found out he had another wife on the US side of the border! Cheers, Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Hello Thanks very much - I have a medal to Saville - later KIA or was he ?! Do you have a record of his offence ? The other from memory are Murphy and Cooney (DCM winner) Ian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Ian. Murphy and Cooney musn't have been sentenced to death. Neither appear in the listings. I don't have any details on Saville's offence (other than it was desertion and was in the theatre F&F. His relevant entry for his case is listed as PRO WO 213/6 but I don't know how much use this could be to you. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Dave Thanks for looking - much appreciated Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 5 September , 2005 Share Posted 5 September , 2005 Hello Just thought of another one D Woolrich - Coldstream Gds - is he mentioned ? Cheers for looking Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 5 September , 2005 Share Posted 5 September , 2005 Hello Just thought of another one D Woolrich - Coldstream Gds - is he mentioned ? Cheers for looking Ian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope. No death sentence for Woolrich! (and I'm damned if I can find the "missing" guardsman from my list!) dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 6 September , 2005 Share Posted 6 September , 2005 hello thanks for all the trouble you have gone to. Its always great to find out a major bit of info on a man - makes it all worth while. If I ever find out what he did I will post the results - some one is checking the wo reference so fingers crossed Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now