Mat McLachlan Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 Hi all, Apologies if this has been covered before. Does anyone know definitively the origin of the name for Tyne Cot Cemetery? I've heard that it refers to cottages that stood there early in the war; also that it refers to German pillboxes there that looked like Tyneside cottages. Anyone know for sure or is this one lost to the ages? Cheers, Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 This below statement is taken from here The name 'Tyne Cot' was given because on the site of the present cemetery, a cottage used to stand. The British soldiers abbreviated the word cottage to 'Cot' and coupled it with the name of the river Tyne in Northern-England. The entrance gate to Tyne Cot reminds of this cottage. hope this helps Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc glorieux Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 Mat & Arm another local story ... There is always told to me that on this spot, before the war, was living a farmer/carrier, with the name LAMMERTYN .His name was painted on the wall of his cottage (barn). Farm + barn destructed by shelling fire and only a little wall fragment, with the painted letters TYN, remains … (Story told by my mother in law (° 1918 in France as child of fugitives) and living since 1920 in Passendale) marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 And I heard exactly the same story and explanation a few months ago, but hesitated to mention it on the Forum since I thought that this would only produce a smile. But now that Marc mentions it ... (And his source is different from mine !) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 September , 2005 Share Posted 1 September , 2005 And I heard exactly the same story and explanation a few months ago, but hesitated to mention it on the Forum since I thought that this would only produce a smile. But now that Marc mentions it ... (And his source is different from mine !) Aurel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be honest, I think that this story might have some substance. One thing that always puzzled me about the "traditional" explaination was the lack of other features in the vicinity that were named after North Eastern places. Dave. (incidentally, it was usually called "Tyne Cott" (2 "t's") on period maps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 I suppose given the nature of the Britsh soldier to abbrviate and alter the pronounciation of words it is well in the realms of possibility that they saw 'Tyn' and thought of Tyne and so on. regards Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat McLachlan Posted 2 September , 2005 Author Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Thanks for the replies. Most interesting. Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Arm, Exactly. That's what I thought too. Maybe the "...tyn" (if there was) triggered the reference to the Tyne area. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 My understanding (see Holt's Battlefield Guide to the Salient Page 72)was that the site was named by the Northumberland Fusiliers who saw a resemblance between the outline of the German pillboxes silhouetted on the horizon and the traditional type of cottage from their own neighbourhood on the Tyne, hence the name Tyne Cot. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Same as John S, although I always thought that was a bit of a fanciful tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 I too have the Holt's guide, so I have always gong along with the story mentioned by John S............... I think I prefer Marc's version!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 I think I like the amalgamated version, where the Northumbrians see the farm name plate and think it is like the Tyne. But then if you look at my address, you will see why I can't discount the Tyne version. But who decided the cemetery names anyway? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 I like Marc’s account. Does anyone know when the name first appeared on maps? It may have been used before the bunkers were built. Does anyone know exactly where ‘Tyne Cott.’ was? Was it to the east or west of the name on the map? I don’t think it was on the site of the cemetery. This overlay doesn’t exactly help but I thought I’d post it anyway since I had it. Note the former German cemetery to the east of Tyne Cott. Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc glorieux Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Simon, I have the british map (a copy) "28 - zonnebeke - edition 7A - trenches corrected to 08.09.1917 (still german occupation ?) in my possession, with the indication "tyne cott" just on te same place as on your map. The former german cemetery, just under de "KE" on your map must been "Keerselarenhoek" also called "Rooseveldhoek" or "ehrenfriedhof nr. 173" I think Aurel can confirm it. Next week I sent a scan of this map-part (my scan is out of use for the moment) marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Simon & Marc, There is a sketch (p. 68) in the booklet Tyne Cot Passendale, by A. Deseyne (3rd Ed., 1994 ; in Dutch). It is based on a British trench map of 1917 (but doesn't say what time of the year). It shows "Tyne cottage" on exactly the same spot as in Simon's map. (So it also confirms what Marc found on his map of 08.09.17.) Is this the oldest map showing the name Tyne Cottage ? No idea. Maybe Dave Croonaert can help ? Comparing this location on Marc's, Simon's and Deseyne's map, with the boundaries of the present Tyne Cot Cemetery on an IGN map, I think one can say that the 1917 Tyne Cottage is just south of the southern wall of the cemetery. But only just, maybe a few meters. Hardly more. The German cemetery of Keerselaarhoek (or Rooseveldhoek), with approx. 400 graves, was some 200 m east of Tyne Cot Cem. (visible on Simon's map). Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 September , 2005 Share Posted 2 September , 2005 Is this the oldest map showing the name Tyne Cottage ? No idea. Maybe Dave Croonaert can help ?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Check out Sheet 28NE1 ed.3C. (dated 5/5/1916) You'll find your answer there. Them boys from the NF's must have had real good eyesight if the "traditional" story is true!!! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Thanks, Dave. Next time I am at the Documentation Centre I will. (The map extract is not on your website ?) Anyway : oldest mention is 5 May 1916 (or maybe even before that). And the name was given when the British troops were at quite some distance. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Jones Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Check out Sheet 28NE1 ed.3C. (dated 5/5/1916) You'll find your answer there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Dave - I take it we find this in the Dave Croonaert personal map collection? Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc glorieux Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 yep, the "tyne cot " was most time of the war in german possession. any one with an insight on a german map can give the germazn name for "tyne cot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc glorieux Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Them boys from the NF's must have had real good eyesight if the "traditional" story is true!!! Dave , is it possible that the "good eyesight" of the boys was extended once by observation balloons or planes ? marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 any one with an insight on a german map can give the germazn name for "tyne cot" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately, it's unnamed on this one. dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 . (The map extract is not on your website ?) Anyway : oldest mention is 5 May 1916 (or maybe even before that). And the name was given when the British troops were at quite some distance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it's not on my website. It's not really all that "interesting" enough to be honest (it's a long way behind German lines and not much detail is shown) and I don't own it anymore (been selling a few off recently - that was one of the first to go!) I believe that the name pre-dates even this. Possibly named by the Northumberland Hussars who were nearby(ish) in October 1914? Whatever the date, I certainly think it predates the bunkers. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Check out Sheet 28NE1 ed.3C. (dated 5/5/1916) You'll find your answer there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For those with access to it, the Trenchmap CD-ROM has an edition of 28NE (1:40,000 scale) which is dated 1916. This shows "Tyne Cot" (spelled with a single "t"). It's on the "multi-map" section - "early maps". Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 Dave , is it possible that the "good eyesight" of the boys was extended once by observation balloons or planes ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very possible. That was one thought that I had too. However, I don't think that the NFs did name it after all (see my earlier answer - the one above my last post). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2005 Share Posted 3 September , 2005 There is a sketch (p. 68) in the booklet Tyne Cot Passendale, by A. Deseyne (3rd Ed., 1994 ; in Dutch). It is based on a British trench map of 1917 (but doesn't say what time of the year). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is the relevant section of the map from the booklet that Aurel was referring to. It just mentions "Summer" 1917... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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