what a whopper !

[uncle bill]

He looks pretty relaxed considering the monster he is standing next to.

[bcerha]

Now that could seriously spoil your dug out!

Seriously though, any ideas which monster fired a shell that size?

David

[uncle bill]

I guess so. Maybe a german speaking pal will enlighten us.

[Tom Morgan]

Now that could seriously spoil your dug out!

Seriously though, any ideas which monster fired a shell that size?

David

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the caption means that it's a 38 cm shell, then that would be a 15-inch I guess.

Note the soldier's left hand behind his back. Keeping his fingers crossed, no doubt!

Tom

[Robert Dunlop]

To my knowledge, the British did not have anything with this calibre until much later in the war. I wonder if it was a French shell, fired from a 37cm railway gun.

Robert

[Paul Reed]

38cm is approx 14.8-inches, so this must be a 15-inch as Tom has suggested. At least one gun of this calibre (manned by the RMA) was in operation during the 1916 Battle of the Somme. In 1993 several of these shells were found at Beaucourt; they were very impressive beasts!

[themonsstar]

Hi

A very good photo of a Machine-gunner from an MG marksmen detachmen identified by the sleeve badge on L/arm. plus a big bomb

[Malte Znaniecki]

This is in Flanders dunes (area of Westende) 1915/1916

[Cnock]

Hello,

Another British dud, this time in the Ypres Salient.(april 1916)

Regards,

Cnock

[Jack Sheldon]

First of all here's a photograph of a 381mm (15") howitzer dud that landed near Thiepval in July 1916. Posing next to it id Gefreiter Auer of Sharp Shooter Troop 89

Jack

[Jack Sheldon]

Second, here is another dud from Thiepval, but this one was dug out when the foundations for the new visitor centre were being prepared in November 2003. It was under the corner nearest to the memorial and I was there helping to monitor the dig the day it was found. It had been hoped that such a rare dud could be trepanned, made safe and displayed in the centre, but the demineurs ruled that out after some consideration. The shell was fired from a British 15" howitzer, derived from a naval gun. Weight of shell about 1,400lbs, bursting charge 400lb. The British used four or six of these massive weapons (range circa 11,000 yards) during the pre-Somme bombardment. I cannot remember which, so I've asked someone who knows. If I get a reply I'll post it.

Jack

[Paul Reed]

Of course the fact that this was found at Thiepval does not necessarily mean the shell was fired in 1916 - as indeed with the ones I saw at Beaucourt all those years ago. It shows how times have changed; one of the Beaucourt shells sat there for 9+ months, and many visitors had their photos taken by it! Modern versions of the wartime PCs above!

[Jack Sheldon]

Paul

I would of course grant you that entirely in respect of dud number 2, but the one with Gefreiter Auer is copied from the history of Bavarian Res Inf Regt 8, with whom the machine gunners of his SS MG Troop were deployed at the time, in amongst their Battle of the Somme pictures. This regiment left for the Carpathians straight after their Thiepval deployment of July 1916 and did not return west again until early 1917. They then served near Brody, then Flanders until 3 Aug 17, Hindenburg Line until end September 1917, back to Flanders until the end of October 1917, then spent the rest of the war successively in Lorraine,Soissons/Reims sector then, finally were between the Oise and the Marne. July 1916 was their only contact with the Somme, so I don't think that the identification of the timing of dud number 1 is wrong. In any case, as you point out and I agree with you, we know that a limited number of 15" howitzers were used by the British during the 1916 battle.

Jack

[Malte Znaniecki]

Thiepval, the third (Sept. 1916)

[Paul Reed]

Jack - yes, it was the second photo I was referring to. From memory the RMA gun positions were in Mesnil-Martinsaart, so the fact that all these images relate to Thiepval makes sense.

[Mat McLachlan]

German is a great language, isn't it... If you were making up a language from scratch and wanted a term for a huge, nasty, unexploded shell, you'd struggle to come up with anything that sounded more appropriately solemn than 'Blindganger'.

Cheers,

Mat

[derwisj]

One thing i find strange is that those duds lie on top of the ground; You would think that something that heavy, falling out of the sky would dig itself deep in the ground...

pascal

[Piscator]

The markings on the shell casing in the first photo gives a good idea of how the shell was spinning when it hit, the ground couldnt have been too hard as there doesnt appear to be to much damage to the casing, but obviously there were stones or rocks in the vicinity to cause the markings. It would however, have put an end to afternoon tiffin in no uncertain terms even if it didnt go off.

Len

[bob lembke]

First of all here's a photograph of a 381mm (15") howitzer dud that landed near Thiepval in July 1916.  Posing next to it id Gefreiter Auer of Sharp Shooter Troop 89

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jack;

Note that the soldier in the first Blindgaenger photo starting this thread is also a machine gunner. By the collar lace and the binoculars he most likely was the NCO commanding a MG, and from the helmet cover he was also from the Reserve=Infanterie=Regiment Nr. 8.

Jack's machine gunner is wearing the cord about the right shoulder (fouragette ??? - Was it true that these came from Napoleon, who hung one of his officers for causing a giant traffic jam, and then decreed that all his officers were to wear a cord about their shoulder of a length and strength sufficient for him to be hung with, to remind him of his duty to France?) of the duly annointed marksman. (Were these given for firing for record with the MG, as well as for the G 98?)

As commented, you would think that these would bury themselves deeply, not lie about on the surface. At Antwerp, one of the 42 cm fort-buster shells did not explode when it hit a fort, even though they had two seperate fuzes and explosive chambers. The armored shell went through about 40 feet of concrete, earth, concrete interior walls, rooms, and finally all 2550 pounds of it went sliding down a corridor about 30-40 feet underground, probably hissing and smoking from its time fuzes, probably scaring anyone standing in the corridor out of the military and into the priesthood. The point is that the shell buried that deep. Admittedly the 42 cm were fired at 70 degree elevation, so went up 4-5 miles before coming down, but you would think that these 38 cm shells (about 1800-2000 lbs?) would go deeper than a few inches. It is possible that a number lying about the surface indicates that many were buried deeply. Possibly the fuzing of the 38 cm shells were such that they were likely to not explode when fired into the muck of the Somme.

Bob Lembke

[Cnock]

Hello,

If the NCO of the first pic belongs to 8th Reserve Regiment, then there is a problem with the caption of the pic.

R.I.R. 8 was part of 5th Reserve Division, that was engaged during entire 1916 at the Eastern front.

Regards,

Cnock

[bob lembke]

Hello,

If the NCO of the first pic belongs to 8th Reserve Regiment, then there is a problem with the caption of the pic.

R.I.R. 8 was part of 5th Reserve Division, that was  engaged during entire 1916 at the Eastern front.

Regards,

Cnock

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cnock;

We are both right, in a way. And Jack Sheldon, in his Post # 14, holds the answer.

The Pickelhaube cover clearly identifies the wearer as a member of Reserve (Infantry) Regiment Nr. 8. However, Jack pointed out that his machine gunner was a member of Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment Nr. 8. Of the four armies in the Imperial Army, Bavaria was the one kingdom that really had an independent unit numbering system, I believe. (I am not an expert on the Bavarian Army.) This is not the first time that this has led me a bit astray, as I am usually not focusing on that army, my interests are usually in some corner of the Prussian Army.

Bob Lembke

[themonsstar]

Hi all

This shell was at La Boisselle/Lochnagar Crater for some time around 2000/2002.

[bernardmcilwaine]

dud or not,i wouldnt mind one of those landing on the mother in law

[bob lembke]

dud or not,i wouldnt mind one of those landing on the mother in law  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mother-in-law's aside, has the mother of the cute kid seen that photo? We all know that some women can be quite unreasonable.

I am blessed with a great mother-in-law. Her family came from England in 1634 and have been farmers in New England for the last 371 years. She is now 70, but when she was 16 she lost her hunting license for killing two deer with one round, both head shots. Also at 16, she successfully pitched men's semi-professional baseball. She left her first husband and lived near the Canadian border in the winter in a teepee (American Indian tent) with a man 14 years younger than she. Great gal.

Bob Lembke

[bob lembke]

PS: Any idea about the shell? I would guess a 21 cm (or 8") or possibly a 24 cm.

Bob Lembke