are there pow lists

[Guest edwinwrg4751]

with regards to my recent note on b battery being captured are there any lists or dbases which i can look into,so that i can find pow's in captivity.

many thanks edwin

[Chris_Baker]

There is only a partial list. See The Long, Long Trail (link top left of this page) and the section called "Behind the wire"

[Graham Stewart]

Hello there,

Just noticed this posting in passing regarding lists of POW's and Edwinwrg asks if there are such things as lists or a database. In reprinted book form(the title of which escapes me) there is a list, but it deals only with officers captured in 1918?

Now you may or may not be aware but the "Enquiry List" produced by the Red Cross & Order of St.John during the Great War are lists dedicated to the missing, many of whom are POW's. Only "Enquiry List - No.14 of August 1st, 1917", has ever been reproduced commercially and I believe copies can still be bought.

On the other hand the Red Cross Archive here in the U.K. does infact have a small but incomplete collection of "Enquiry Lists", while I believe some are also in private hands. I had all of the Northumberland Fusiliers sections copied by the R.C. Archive and they have proved invaluable in my research.

The biggest collection of POW documents actually remains with the Red Cross at their Archive in Berne, Switzerland, but they won't release any information to anyone who can't prove they're a blood relative. For some unknown reason they will not share this information with anyone, although I believe some family history groups did try to persuade them that releasing the information would help all of those in the U.K. with an interest.

I know it's there because many years ago when writing "Tyneside Scottish", I directed a family to the R.C. in Berne and they got all the information they required which was a great help to them.

Personally I think it's time that the R.C. authorities did release all of these POW records, as they're a vital part of our Military Heritage.

Hope this is of some use to you, and perhaps the GWF may think of ways to have these documents released?

Regards,

Graham.

[bernardmcilwaine]

graham,they wont release them while they are still charging folks 15 quid+ an hour for a enquiry,i only have a list of all the officer POWs so i cant be of any help,bernard

[Graham Stewart]

Bernard,

Christ! Is that what the greedy ******* are charging. Typical of your Swiss I would think. On the other hand the R.C. Archive here in the U.K., just used to ask for a donation(does it still only take donations?), so I used to give them a fiver which was well over the odds for the amount of copies that I got, but well worth it to me.

If you're chasing a particular regiment for a database or whatever I would certainly recommend our R.C. Archive, but please don't scrimp on the donation(thats if they still do it) it keeps the Archive going.

Graham.

[bernardmcilwaine]

graham,i have a copy of a RC letter from someone who was looking for info on his g/father,they charged him 45 quid,they say it will take them appox 4 and a half hours to check their records,bernard

[Graham Stewart]

Bernard,

Me - shocked again. As you can tell it's been sometime since I used the R.C. Archive and even then I only asked for copies for the Northumberland Fusiliers, although I did get all of the M.G.C. for Jim Parker.

I got a shock recently when trying to complete a run of Absent Voters Lists from Northumberland. I had intentions of copying the last two books until I was sent a quote, which was priced at 35p a sheet. Nearly dropped through the floor at that one.

The question is why do they charge so much? I mean we're not made of money and all we're trying to do is a bit of research, not only for ourselves but for others with a likewise interest. If it wasn't for people like ourselves and family historians half of these archives wouldn't be used.

Graham.

[bernardmcilwaine]

graham,thats the good thing about this forum,if you ask and it can be got,then someone on here will get it for you,we seem to have 5th columnists in every town and city round the world,and in the short time ive been on i have not seen one member charge another a single penny,ive had loads of help off folks on here and i have never met any of them,i hope that i have been as kind in return and continue to do so in the future,i consider my library theres,and i will copy or quote anything they want,it will be a pleasure,bernard

ps,i bought your book when it first came out,FIRST CLASS.

[stevem]

There a couple of printed lists, one is the "List of British Officers taken prisoner in the various Theatres of War between August 1914 and November 1918. Compiled from Records kept by Messrs. Cox & Co's Enquiry Office, at Harrington House, Criags Court, Charing Cross, London, S.W.1" This list was republished by N & M Press. It lists officers by regiment and usually battalion, the following is a typical entry:

Capt G Robertson, 6th Bn., Royal scots Fusiliers, missing 25 September 1915, interned in Holland 10 April 1918, repatriated 18 November 1918.

I also have a printed list titled "Roll of officers and men who were interned in a P.O.W. camp in the first world war". There is no date and no details of who complied the list or where the information came from. It is divided into three sections:

Section 1 - Gottingen Camp, Germany, a list of approximately 2300 men, details given are number, name and regiment.

Section 2 - Officers who were in the Citadel Queuists POW camp, a list of 585 men.

Section 3 - A list of officers and men of the RFC who were interned in Germany, Bulgaria and Turkey, 1914 to 1917 - approximately 330 names including approximately 30 RFC other rank POWs

I would be happy to look up any names in either book.

Regards

Steve

[sandyford]

Edwin - It is tantalising when you know that soldiers who were missing may have become prisoners of war and the only way we know about them is if they died and are listed in cemeteries in Germany.

Graham - Can't believe I am writing in the same thread as 'the' Graham Stewart!

Steve - I have a list of about 18 officers Missing from 6th Batt. Northumberland Fusiliers on 27th May 1918. Some may have turned up again later. It sounds as though the N & M press list would be very useful, although it doesn't seem to say which POW camp they were in, but the second list does and also includes OR.

Is the N & M list still in print and is the other list also in print?

Kate

[bernardmcilwaine]

kate,ask tom morgan,he may be able to get it for you,thats where i got mine from,i have lists of men from the kings own royal lancasters,and i believe the lancashire fusiliers have a list of their POWs,bernard

[stevem]

Hi Kate

I think the Cox & Co list is still available from N & M, but as Bernard says Tom Morgan may be able to get it for you. You are right there is no camp information provided. The second list was not published as such, it is a photocopy which I bought on a Speedbid auction, I am happy to look up any names you may be interested in.

I have had a look in Cox & Cos list for 6th Batt., NF POWs for 27 May 1918 and it is as follows:

Lt Col E Temperley 25 December 1918

Capt. H Graham 26 December 1918

Capt R E M Heanley 25 December 1918

Capt J G Garrard 21 January 1919

Lt J Watson December 1918

Lt J W Crake 25 December 1918

Lt W M McLare 6 January 1919

Lt C O Marshall 14 December 1918

Lt H V Russell 18 December 1918

2/Lt W R Dodd December 1918

2/Lt A E Glanville 8 December 1918 attached from TMB

2/Lt J Gray 2 January 1919

2/Lt J S Stokoe December 198

2/Lt A S Taylor 30 December 1918

2/Lt T R Lees 18 December 1918 attached from R Irish Rifles

2/Lt H R B Bellerby 25 December 1918 attached from R Irish Rifles

2/Lt A P Anderson December 1918 attached fromDurham Light Infantry

The date is the date of repatriation to the UK. As they were captured in the middle of 1918 none of the men were transferred to Holland. I hope this is of use.

Regards

Steve

[Graham Stewart]

Bernard & Kate,

Many thanks for you kind words and although I've only been a member of GWF for about two weeks am thoroughly enjoying it, especially when you're able to help someone out.

I was asked to join in a while back, but we weren't on the net and I always had reservations about such things because of the amount of work I have on the computer which I didn't want contaminated with viruses. Now the technology is in place to help prevent that sort of thing happening, plus backing up, then I'm a bit more reassured.

I'm not sure about yourselves, but I think what I would like to see now is all the newspapers(and I mean all) from the 1914-19 period and Absent Voters Lists digitalised. They're fantastic for the sort of thing we're doing and it's because of them that John Sheen and I were able to put together the beginnings of both Tyneside Scottish & Tyneside Irish books.

For instance one of my major discoveries was that the R.Inniskilling Fusiliers actually had a recruitng office in Newcastle and took over a 1,000 men from this region to serve. The 13th Glosters(Forest of Dean - Pioneers) also took a company from here and so on.

Believe me finding factual information about the Great War is far better than myths or legends.

Anyway as this is slightly off the topic concerned I'll go, with the hope many other people know the whereabouts of POW lists. Has anyone checked the Bundes Archive I wonder?

Graham.

[sandyford]

Bernard & Steve

Thanks. After making my posting, I went onto N & M & saw the Officers book. I will see if I can get it from Tom Morgan.

Steve - The officers you have listed are quite a number of the soldiers I have in the 'missing' casualty list, which I mentioned earlier. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to look. It looks as though the book will be well worth having.

Graham - that is interesting about the R. Iniskilling Fusiliers. In another thread we were discussing links between regiments. A recruiting office for a different regiment in a town is an aspect I had not considered. Perhaps there were punch ups between the recruiting Serjeants on the Quayside.

Kate

Edwin - it sounds as though these lists might be useful to you too.

[Max]

Graham - Can't believe I am writing in the same thread as 'the' Graham Stewart!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither can I....its a great honour to have the Director of the International Centre for Brewing and Distilling on board. Your paper on the loss of hydrophobic polypeptides during fermentation and conditioning of high gravity and low gravity brewed beer was a revelation.

Andy

[Graham Stewart]

Max,

Wasn't too bad was it? But as they used to put on my old school reports at Brandon Secodary Modern "must try harder - this boy goes through life pushing doors marked 'pull'".

Graham.

[bernardmcilwaine]

graham,i had two teachers at my sec modern who made it quite plain all through my time there,that i would amount to nothing and would probably end up in borstal,i ended up with my own house,a good job,managed to learn two trades,i have never been in debt nor borstal,ive got a nice wife and kids,non of who have been in trouble,i have a self taught good level of intelligence,and a million friends,they thought nothing of strapping me,just because i was a convenient whipping post for them,your teachers and mine dont seem to be very good at predictions,so sod em,regards bernard

ps,i didnt know you were involved in the tyneside irish as well,my apologis,good job i bought both.

[Max]

Wasn't too bad was it? But as they used to put on my old school reports at Brandon Secodary Modern "must try harder - this boy goes through life pushing doors marked 'pull'".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Graham

Pushing rather than pulling, in my view, shows the makings of a thrusting personality and should be encouraged at all times

Andy

[bernardmcilwaine]

well said andy,pity my two teachers didnt offer the same encouragement,bernard

[sandyford]

Steve

Here is the casualty list for officers for the disastrous day of 27th May. You can see that it almost coincides with your list.

The OR are only totalled but there are a large number of Missing.

Records show 62 deaths in total in the 6th Battalion for May 1918, so a large number of the missing OR must have been P O W.

2 officers were killed and one of them is the Chaplain.

Andy - I am not familiar with Graham's hydrophobic polypeptides work. I was refering to his paper on the anatomy, physionomy, psychology and habitat of the Lesser Haggis.

Kate

[AGWR]

Kate,

I am not sure that it's worth you getting the 1917 Enquiry List, unless you are interested in other battalions. There are only a few names listed:

B Coy Bellaby, W. 257251 Missing 27th Nov 16

2nd Lt F.P. Aldrich Missing 6th July 17

B Coy VII (platoon) Slight, David 4165 Missing 15th Sept 16

D Coy Boylan, J 267246 Missing 16th April 17

D Coy XV Deedman, H.P. 266657 Missing 16th April 17

D Coy Gray, Ivan 265434 Missing 16th April 17

D Coy Hargreaves, S 235280 Missing 16th April 17

Regards,

AGWR

[midletonman2001]

Andy - I am not familiar with Graham's hydrophobic polypeptides work. I was refering to his paper on the anatomy, physionomy, psychology and habitat of the Lesser Haggis.

You lot are mad!

....makes me feel right at home!

Now, if only I could find a list of those POWs in Geissen (in me dreams!)!!!

by-the-way, it's the lesser SPOTTED haggis! And what have pumped-up parrots that don't like the water got to do with anything?

[sandyford]

AGWR - I do have that Red Cross 1917 Enquiry list and thank you for taking the trouble for me. That listing is good, even though it is short, because it has the ORs as well.

When you look at the total of 541 OR missing in May 1918 (admittedly some of these may have been wounded and later recovered), it certainly points us, as Edwin has said, to a chunk of elusive information.

I am going to try a search in the local papers

Midletonman - the Lesser Haggis should never be confused with the Lesser Spotted Haggis.

They are of the same genus. However, one is easily identified, even from a distance in a peat bog, but 'the Lesser' can only be identified in a Lab. by the absence of pustular eruptions, of a magenta colour and crater - like nature, on the epidermis.

I believe the 'pumped up parrot' work has been discredited.

Kate

[Graham Stewart]

Kate,

I have the Red Cross Lists for 1st October 1918 & 1st December 1918 for the Northumberland Fusiliers, the bulk of the missing go back to March, April and May 1918. The 1/6th Bn,N.F. have nearly six pages to themselves.

If I'm correct the R.C. Lists were actually published on a monthly basis, and were constantly being updated, but you can imagine what they would have been like after a major offensive. The N.F. section alone for October and December 1918 runs to 35pages in each edition!!!

Is there anyone in particular that you're actually looking for? As you can see these Lists are months out of date so you have to presume some would have already been accounted for.

Apart from that I'm busy with my next 10,000 word dissertation "Bovine excreta & Homo Sapiens, is there a connection?".

All the best,

Graham.

[sandyford]

Graham - Do you mean that these lists are the ones you sent away for, for a donation, but which we now know to be more valuable than gold dust?

Right up to Dec. 1917 the 6th Batt. compiled fairly detailed monthly casualty lists Officers AND other ranks but in 1918 this obviously becomes impossible. April 1918 had their highest death toll (164) of the whole war. There is just the May Officers listing.

So, I have no record of which of the soldiers in the 6th, who didn't die, may have been taken prisoner and, from what you say and the War Diary total, the numbers are considerable and are certainly more than you could post for me.

I might try to get those lists by writing away.

It is very good that you have come to the forum, because you will be able to get lots of samples, examples & evidence for your new dissertation. bring your sample jar!

Kate