Patrick H Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 One of the boys listed on Christ Church Memorial tablet. Thats all I have on him and no details on CWGC. Can anyone help me find more on him please ? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 There are only 8 Bliss listed on the NA webste and only 1 that could be anywhere near. http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=8 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 18 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2005 There are only 8 Bliss listed on the NA webste and only 1 that could be anywhere near. http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=8 Andy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Andy, but VAD wouldnt that make him a woman ? although I suppose they did have male staff. The initials are L on the NA but I have him as F J and a Sgt I will check Parish Mag tonight to see if there is any ref to him/her Thanks for looking Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Hello Patrick I didn't think it was who you are looking for. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 18 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2005 ok Andy. If I get any info on him from Parish Mag I will post it as he was a warley man and may have been in the Essex. The problem is not knowing when he died. Until 1916 the Church mag had quite a lot of info on local men in the War but paper shortages meant all that stopped. They also record the "Roll of Honour" of all serving men of the Parish being posted up at 6 venues around the parish. I have never been able to locate what happened to these. Any thoughts? Said it was a long shot !!! Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Patrick We like having a go at long shots About 1000-1 if I were a betting man but who knows Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Long shot - could he have served with the Canadians or Aussies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Patrick Have you considered that the rank may be wrong on the memorial, not an uncommon occurance. He may also have been a local, acting Sgt, which would have meant his substansive rank being Private. There are two FJ Bliss's in the CWGC register, rifleman and private, as you are no doubt aware. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 18 May , 2005 Share Posted 18 May , 2005 Long shot - could he have served with the Canadians or Aussies? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> May not be such a long shot. There was a Frederick Bliss born in Forest Gate, Essex 1891, who was a sergeant with the CEF 31st Bn. He was living in West Ham Essex with brother David, sisters, mother Susan and father Frederick at time of 1901 census. David Henry was also with the CEF but appears to have survived. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Myrtle, thanks it maybe he is my man but= 1. Why would a West ham man (my team by the way and Premiership next season hurray !) enlist into the CEF 2. He would have been 23 at outbreak of war and being a Sgt I assume he was a regular so what is his connection with Warley? He wouldnt have enlisted at Warley I assume, but if he did would the CEF be an option avalaible to him? 3. Were the CEF ever at Warley Barracks ? I cannot see why he should be on the Christ Church Warley memorial, no local connection, no local battalion, strange Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Myrtle, thanks it maybe he is my man but= 1. Why would a West ham man (my team by the way and Premiership next season hurray !) enlist into the CEF 2. He would have been 23 at outbreak of war and being a Sgt I assume he was a regular so what is his connection with Warley? He wouldnt have enlisted at Warley I assume, but if he did would the CEF be an option avalaible to him? 3. Were the CEF ever at Warley Barracks ? I cannot see why he should be on the Christ Church Warley memorial, no local connection, no local battalion, strange Patrick <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Patrick 1. He was living in Canada at time of enlisting. His brother David who was given as his next of kin was also in Canada with his wife. 2. He was with the London Scottish for two and a half years . (His mother was born in Scotland) 3. I don't know about Warley barracks but if the Warley you mention is the one in Essex, it could be something as simple as one of his sisters lived in that place and that is why Frederick was mentioned on the local memorial. It was not unusual for men to be remembered on memorials because their relatives lived in a particular town. You should have a look at the Canadian attestation papers on line at WW1 CEF Trace Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 19 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Myrtle, Many thanks for that- wonderful stuff and thats another little mystery cleared up. I dont suppose I will ever find out why he is recorded on the Christ Church Memorial. I see in his papers he states his religion as Church Of England, perhaps he attended Christ Church services at some time- oh well Thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 19 May , 2005 Share Posted 19 May , 2005 Patrick, if it is Fred Bliss with the 31st Battalion, C.E.F. you're looking for, then I have something for you. I've been working through a small town newspaper, the Red Deer Advocate, from Red Deer, Alberta (on-line courtesy of the Province Of Alberta's digitization program). Anyway, I was just going through the February 23, 1917 edition this afternoon and was reading a "letter from the front" and came across his name. If you go to the section entitled "Art Mann's experiences" and go down to the third paragraph, it mentions how he was killed. Here the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 20 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Chris, thats my man and great article. So starting with just a name in an Essex Church I have all his details, Attestation Papers and details of his death. Isnt this a wonderful forum ? Many thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 20 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Chris, How would I go about getting Canadian records on this man (Sgt Frederick Bliss) Is there an equivalent to the CWGC site as he is not on this one. The article in the newspaper is very interesting but it doesnt say where the Battalion was. Is there a war diary online etc etc Many thanks in hope Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 This looks like him http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...asualty=1565384 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 20 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2005 How the heck did you get that. I have tried about 5 times on the cwgc site and no luck !! Anyway many thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 I bet you had his nationality as British. I just stuck in F. Bliss and WW1 and picked him out of the list. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 20 May , 2005 Share Posted 20 May , 2005 Hi Patrick. It really was a nice coincidence to come across his name at the same time as you started this thread. This page will tell you what you need to know about ordering a service file, link. A complete service file usually has a wealth of material - this page will give you an idea what is in it, link. I ordered several last year and each one cost me about $25 CDN, taking about a month to receive them. You could also use a Private researcher, some of the Canadian Pals have used one fellow in particular with excellent results; the advantage being he omits some of the pages such as pay ledger sheets which most people don't want. One thing, be sure to ask for the "Circumstances of Death" sheet which is kept separately from the service file (why, I have no idea?). Again this can yield further information (or might just say, killed in action). Try the 31st Battalion War Diary, link, which may have some mention of him. The 31st Battalion had a history written after the war which again might yield more information. If I can be of further help, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 23 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2005 Thanks Chris, very useful. However I am away on holiday in France on Thursday so dont have time to follow up at the moment, but will do so when I return. Thanks again Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 24 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2005 am still trying to tie down Sgt Frederick Bliss 31st Canadian Ex Force who is commemorated on the Christ Church Warley Essex memorial. I can fnd no reason why he is so recorded there. But I have now looked thought the Parish Magazines for the years 1914-1916 and there are several references to a Bliss family living in the Parish. Can anyone do a Census look up for 1901 to see if the family is shown as living in Warley. There is a one Miss Bliss a teacher at the Christ Church school and several other Blisses mentioned in the mag at various times. I am just hoping that I havnt got the wrong man and that Sgt F J Bliss 31 CEF is the right man ! Thanks Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 This is the Bliss family of West Ham per the 1901 Census: Frederick Bliss abt 1855 Bethnal Green, London, Head, Commercial Clerk Susan Bliss abt 1861 Scotland Wife Agnes M Bliss abt 1887 Hackney, London, Daughter Amy D Bliss abt 1893 Forest Gate, Essex, Daughter David N Bliss abt 1890 Forest Gate, Essex, Son Donald G Bliss abt 1898 Forest Gate, Essex, Son Fred R Bliss abt 1892 Forest Gate, Essex, Son Gwendoline Bliss abt 1900 Forest Gate, Essex, Daughter Irene B Bliss abt 1896 Forest Gate, Essex, Daughter Maria M Bliss abt 1888 Hackney, London, England Daughter Susan Bliss abt 1892 Forest Gate, Essex, Daughter Minnie S Goodwin abt 1872 Romford, Essex, Servant , Housemaid Florence M Milbon abt 1876 Romford, Essex, Servant , General servant That "R" on Fred's name may well be an "L" or a "J". I'll try and post a small pic of the original later, and the address, cus I can't make head nor tail of that... but it is in the Forest Gate district of West Ham. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Steve, what you've posted does tie in with what is written on the attestation paper save for minor differences, ie. his brother's middle name - David Henry Bliss - link to attestation paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Chris The "N" may very well be an "H". I would have thought that the family that Steve has listed would be the same as that of the CEF man. How many men with the surname Bliss born in Forest Gate would there have been in the Canadian Forces ? Now what I would like to know is "Was it Agnes, Amy, Gwendoline, Irene, Maria or Susan who taught at Christ Church school?" Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 May , 2005 Share Posted 24 May , 2005 Attached is an (partial) image of the Census: It is not an unusual Census in the fact that some of the names are difficult to read. As for the address, I'm not even going to try with Myrtle present! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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