Lieutenant George Raymond Dallas Moor

[Guest]

It would be interesting to know what, officers were taught , regarding thid type of situation. I can't remember where I heard it, but am sure Clement Atlee once had to threaten to shoot a man who wouldn't follow an order, and when asked " would you have shot him " said a definite " Yes "

Difficult decision, but is it really any different than , shooting someone for desertion.

Different rules apply in war.

Mike

[Marc Thompson]

The references at posts #40 and #44 indicate that the retreating battalion was to the left of Moor's 2/Hampshire. I can't find any reference which names it, nor have I been able to work out, from deployments, which it would have been. Can anyone help, please?

Indications are that the disorganised retirement on the left were men from either 1/KOSB or 1/Essex (1 Coy in line) or a combination from both. This mass of men was pressed back against 2/Royal Fusiliers left with the line then pivoting back on 2/Hants.

Marc

[John_Hartley]

Marc

Many thanks for that. From the reading I'd done, I was unsure if it was 2/RF, as they appeared to be the only other unit mentioned as being close by.

John

[Chris Best]

. . . . Is this another example of the Aussies still carrying the grudge against us Poms (by editorial omission of facts) for what the commanders did or didn't do at Gallipoli? Mind you it appears a lot of the complaining was justified.

Bob

Bob,

According to the Wiki article on GR D Moor VC MC and Bar, although our man served in an English Regiment, he was Australian by birth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Raymond_Dallas_Moor

as does:

http://www.devonheritage.org/Places/Braunton/GeorgeRaymondDallasMoorVC.htm

whilst:

http://www.devonheritage.org/Places/Braunton/GeorgeRaymondDallasMoorVC.htm

tells us he was born in Ceylon and that his father had been Auditor-General in The Transvaal

So, I'm not sure your rhetorical question is right. On the other hand, one might consider whether his early years spent in a colonial household had any effect on his attitude to 'native labour'.

An interesting outcome of considering your post my learning that 4 VCs (Boyle RN, Moor HANTS, Willis LF and Unwin RN) of 38 VCs in the Gallipoli/Dardanelles theatre, including Moor's, were awarded to men with a link to Cheltenham. Perhaps there's something in the water!

Chris

[rap1943]

Hi Chris

I had forgotten all about this topic so I'd better refresh the old mind by reading it from the beginning!

But first, I have looked at your links and I'm afraid I can't find any reference to Moor being Australian by birth?

Bob

[Marc Thompson]

But first, I have looked at your links and I'm afraid I can't find any reference to Moor being Australian by birth?

Bob,

You need to read this thread in consultation with the below which will answer your question:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=194727#entry1907303

Marc

[Guest JMC]

Dave 59 wrote:

QUOTE

Good riddance, there is no justification for shooting your own men, under any circumstance.

I find this statement totally unacceptable and demeaning to the memory of a VC recipient. As numerous members of the forum have pointed out there is little evidence that he shot the four men and, even if he did, in my opinion it would be a reasonable response for the rout that was occurring at the time of his action. Dave 59 owes an apology to both this forum and to the family of Lieutenant Moor. Dick Flory

I have only recently discovered this thread about GRD Moor VC MC Bar, and have read all the comments with much interest. I think this forum is a great way to exchange opinions in an open manner, but I must confess to feeling a little horrified by some of Dave 59's rather extreme and 'troll like' comments based, it would seem, on very little evidence and largely on conjecture.

GRD Moor was my second cousin once removed, (his great grandfather - my great x 2 grandfather - was George Moor, a solicitor from Durham), so please forgive me for finding some of the more offensive comments somewhat disrespectful and upsetting. In fact I've joined the War Forum specifically to defend GRD Moor's name and to thank all those who have very kindly expressed more intelligent, moderate and sympathetic views.

In the centenary year of the outbreak of WW1, perhaps it is more appropriate that we all honour the brave boys and men who sacrificed their lives, in unimaginably horrific circumstances, in defence of our country - including my much loved family member, George Raymond Dallas Moor VC MC Bar.

Jane

[pegasus]

On 18/01/2009 at 11:48, John_Hartley said:

 

Marc

Many thanks for that. From the reading I'd done, I was unsure if it was 2/RF, as they appeared to be the only other unit mentioned as being close by.

 

According to an earlier post quoting a seperate source, Lt Moor’s VC was recommended or at least supported by an Officer or Officers of 2/Royal Fusiliers HOWEVER I can’t (easily) find the source of that statement NOR can I find the actual recommendation - can anyone help please?

[michaeldr]

On 7/11/2005 at 15:08, michaeldr said:

Moor’s VC was recommended by the officers of the 2nd Royal Fusiliers who had witnessed his desperate action and who no doubt thought that they had him to thank for their still be alive themselves.

 

This was a ref taken from Stephen Snelling's book on the Gallipoli VCs [ISBN 0-7509-0566-2] published by Alan Sutton in 1995

see page 124;

"Moor's role in the battle prompted a congratulatory message from the commanding officer of the 88th Brigade. However, his actions may otherwise have gone unrewarded but for the actions of officers from the neighbouring unit, 2nd Royal Fusiliers. It was they who recommended him for the Victoria Cross"

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

"Moor's role in the battle prompted a congratulatory message from the commanding officer of the 88th Brigade.

 

This is mentioned in the WD of the Headquarters 88th Inf Brigade

see WO 95/4312  - image ref 465 - pdf page 90 - entry for 6 June at 2p.m.

2nd Lt Moors (sic) is named in the entry

 

edit to ps: The Brigadier General commanding 88th Inf Brigade was  W. Doran

[per a note in the British OH, he arrived from home on 26 May and was invalided a few days after this battle - see Vol.II, p.49]

Edited 30 March , 2018 by michaeldr