Dover - Dunkerque

[John_Hartley]

I’m a fair minded bloke so I will not describe the management of Norfolk Line as a bunch of ***** who should be prosecuted under Trade Description legislation for their claim that they are “dedicated to the motoring passenger”.

And, as a fair minded bloke, I will tell you that they serve a great breakfast; the ferry has ample and comfortable seats and that it’s not full of chavs getting pissed at nine in the morning.

However, “dedicated to the motoring passenger” implies that they provide something of a good service to motorists – like quick check-in. And they do at Dover. It took just a couple of minutes.

But what they do not warn you is that at Dunkerque, just after check-in, the entry to the parking area reduces to one lane, whilst British immigration officials search each heavy goods vehicle for potential illegal immigrants. This causes traffic to back-up considerably down the road prior to check-in.

Yesterday morning we arrived at the ferry terminal just about in time for the company’s minimum “one hour before sailing”. However, the back-up of the queue meant that it took 45 minutes to reach check-in. At which point, we were refused boarding to our scheduled ferry and reallocated to the next which was 2.25 hours later.

A further expectation of a service company is that their employees not be rude to their customers –unlike the check-in clerk who told my partner that it was “impossible” that we had been in the queue for 45 minutes and that it could only have been 20. A suggestion that we might know better than he did, seeing as we had been in the queue and he had not, met with a blank look. He did however confirm that it was “always like this”.

A letter of complaint is winging its way to the managing director of the parent company, Maersk.

Dover – Dunkerque again?

Norfolking chance.

John

[Max]

Hello John

Excellent news!!! Fewer whinging Lancastrians on the boat (JOKE).

Seriously, I have travelled via Norfolk Line on several occasions and have always found the service to be very good.Checkin stress free, lorry driver standard breakfasts and plenty of room to spread out on the boat. I am surprised to learn that when you travelled the line filtered into one checkin desk. On the occasions I have travelled there have been seperate checkins for cars and lorries all the way through to the immigration checks. They must have been having a bad day.

Andy

[John_Hartley]

Andy

Let me be precise in my condemnation of this lot. There were three check-in desks (none reserved for cars, unlike at Dover)), but literally immediately after, they went to one lane for the immigration checks. So, effectively, there was only one route through which is why everything was backed up out of the check-in area and down the road.

I wouldnt even wish this on a Yorkshireman.

John

[Max]

Andy

Let me be precise in my condemnation of this lot. There were three check-in desks (none reserved for cars, unlike at Dover)), but literally immediately after,  they went to one lane for the immigration checks. So, effectively, there was only one route through which is why everything was backed up out of the check-in area and down the road.

I wouldnt even wish this on a Yorkshireman.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello John

Again, I have not experienced this, but I could put it down to your red rose inability to read road signs correctly . There are two lanes, the one on the left is fast track and is purely for cars and the one on the right is reserved for lorries. It may be that one of the Polish lorry drivers had the same difficulty as you in reading the English signs (understandable in his case)and blocked up the stream.

Better luck next time

Andy

[John_Hartley]

Hello John

Again, I have not experienced this, but I could put it down to your red rose inability to read road signs correctly  . There are two lanes, the one on the left is fast track and is purely for cars and the one on the right is reserved for lorries. It may be that one of the Polish lorry drivers had the same difficulty as you in reading the English signs (understandable in his case)and blocked up the stream.

Better luck next time

Andy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bearing in mind that I am a Cestrian and not a Lancastrian, you'll appreciate that not only can I read ,but I can also express my thoughts and experiences in writing.

Things must have changed since you were last there. The situation yesterday was that there were three check-in lanes. None appeared to be marked in any way - and certainly cars and lorries were in all three.

But the real difficulty is the reduction to one lane immediately after check-in. As I said, this prevents any other vehicles moving along until immigration has finished checking each vehicle. At one point, none of the three lines moved forward for over ten minutes. Presumably a major inspection of one vehicle was under way.

I suspect you may be confusing this inspection with the next stage of the process where the road divides again into two lanes and one IS for cars. This appears to be little more than passport control for the lorries but I had to open the boot to confirm that there I was not carrying half a dozen stowaways destined for Stockport's illicit job market. By that time, all I cared about was finding somewhere to have a pee.

It really is an appalling situation which Norfolk Line should warn its customers about.

John

[healdav]

You could try complaining to the British Immigration people and Customs, but frankly I know from experience that you will be wasting your time. They don't give a damn.

You will get a reply, but they won't address your complaint. They will just say some rubbish about 'we operate under , blah, blah blah'.

---edited----

[John_Hartley]

---edited----

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

---edited-----

My beef in all this is with Norfolk Line who should have the courtesy to warn their customers of likely problems - especially when they are outside their direct control.

John

[John_Hartley]

One would have to comment that the deletion of even the mildest reference to the election might be deemed to be ever such a tad heavy-handed.

Particularly when the root cause of my problem is the action of the Government's employees acting in accordance with the political decisions of the government. Surely it not unreasonable for healdav & I to make modest reference to the employer.

[Hedley Malloch]

Sorry to hear of your problems, John. I have used NL (also known as Trucker Heaven) several times and never had any problems with them.

The problem seems to be caused by British Immigration officials; they are usually there, but their presence is never very obvious. They tell me there is an election in the UK next week. It's probably connected with that. The last thing HMG will want in the week before the election is a truck load of Chinese immigrants turning up at Dover. Political capital could be made of that. Better safe than sorry, so let's apply the fine toothcomb in NL's car park in Dunkirk well away from the Daily Mail's steely gaze. It will be laid-back business as usual next Friday.

French attitudes to queuing are totally different to those of the English. The French don't respect queues ('But m'sieur, if God had meant us to queue He would not have given us elbows'); the British do. The French don't mind spending hours in them; the British do. I can't explain it and the French can't either. It's something you have to write of to the cultural differences account and try and be easy with it. For me, it is the hardest part of living in France

[ianw]

I suspect Hedley's thoery about immigration not wanting to drop a massive B so close to the election is correct.

As for queue's, of course it's a french word. Quite what we should draw from that I don't know. Personally I hate them, but bear them with a stiff upper lip.

[paul guthrie]

John, can you please be a bit more clear about what you think of Norfolk Line?

Cornfused in Kentucky.

[John_Hartley]

John, can you please be a bit more clear about what you think of Norfolk Line?

Cornfused in Kentucky.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not without contravening Forum taste and decency rules (and please bear in mind that I have already been moderated for an alleged breach of the politics rule)

I think I need a lawyer.

Interested?

Pro bono, of course.

John

[CROONAERT]

But what they do not warn you is that at Dunkerque, just after check-in, the entry to the parking area reduces to one lane, whilst British immigration officials search each heavy goods vehicle for potential illegal immigrants. This causes traffic to back-up considerably down the road prior to check-in.

Yesterday morning we arrived at the ferry terminal just about in time for the company’s minimum “one hour before sailing”. However, the back-up of the queue meant that it took 45 minutes to reach check-in. At which point, we were refused boarding to our scheduled ferry and reallocated to the next which was 2.25 hours later.

Mind you, though, John. Last time my grandad sailed from Dunkirk, the check-in and wait was even longer, and certain uniformed officials made his life even harder!!!!

(I know what you mean, though. I had a "flare up" last year with the Speedferries lot at Dover)

Dave.

[John_Hartley]

Mind you, though, John.  Last time my grandad sailed from Dunkirk, the check-in and wait was even longer, and certain uniformed officials made his life even harder!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. Fair enough, mate.

But at least he got to wait on a nice beach, topping up his tan - not a manky carpark.

[Dragon]

not a manky carpark. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh. Car park stories.

How about being booked on a Dieppe-Newhaven crossing, getting to Dieppe to be told that there was no boat and you’d got to leg it dead fast to up Calais where your ticket would be valid and you’d be on the 4 pm sailing;

missing lunch cos you’d got to get to Calais,

cheerfully checking in at Calais later that afternoon at around 3 pm,

finding that once they got you inside the compound, they informed you that there were delays of hours and hours and hours and hours,

that you wouldn’t be crossing till at least midnight,

yes there were already about six billion cars in a stack for that midnight boat,

no you couldn’t cancel your crossing and drive out again to find accommodation somewhere in France for a couple of nights till the chaos had settled,

no there were no exits to go and look for a restaurant,

yes there was a toilet (note the singular)

no there was no public phone to let anyone know you’re stranded,

yes you see correctly, the cafe is just shutting up;

then being shunted around in queues even further away from the toilet (note singular) (which by now was like a running sewer) and into surroundings resembling a steel works every two hours till 6 am;

then finally getting on a boat at 8.30 a.m.

- a boat where the restaurants had run out of food cos everyone was so hungry –

then pitching round in the sea outside Dover for two hours waiting to berth

till finally getting on the soil of Kent at around 1 pm, 25 hours after trying to check in at Dieppe,

to find that the first pub that did food had just stopped serving...

Gwyn, who did

Oh and PS: despite that, as I said in my email to you, the Dover-Dunkerque crossing is the one crossing on my list of experiences never ever, ever to be repeated.

[Alan_J]

Gwyn,

Sounds like yet another compelling argument to use the tunnel to me!!

Alan

[Dragon]

Alan, I do. (Said with a fervent and heartfelt expression.)

Actually, reflecting, this was just before the Tunnel opened. I suspect the ferry people realised they could get away with treating clients wth cavalier disregard. I bought my first Tunnel ticket the day they went on sale.

Gwyn

Edited 29 April , 2005 by Dragon

[ianw]

Agree that the Tunnel has the edge but still like the ferry experience if it runs on time.

I did have a tunnel nightmare delay of 7 hours or so when 2 trains had broken down but , of course, once onto the train you are guaranteed not to have a sea-sickness enducing trip.

That description of the delayed ferry trip made me feel ill just contemplating it.

[healdav]

When all the recent chaos was going on at Dover I went over on SpeedFerries from Boulogne. They took great delight, understandably, in announcing that they were the only people crossing the Channel on time.

As for P&O, I have had so many bad experiences with that shower and there predecessors over the past 30 years that a book wouldn't suffice.

Just 2 tales. Waiting in line interminably at Dover to check in and then being directed into a holding area. It was only then that I discovered that I was deemed to have checked in late and my booking had been cancelled.

Later I discovered that the problem was that the hovercraft weren't running all those booked on them had been given priority on the P&O boats. Those booked on P&O were just shoved to the back (and so badly organised that the only way out of the holding area was last in first out!

I compalined and was told that it was nothing to do with P&O as Dover were their agents and they weren't responsible for their actions! I pointed out that in fact they are responsible for the actions of their agents (and quoted all the leading cases). Reply came there none.

Then arriving late at Calais (after car breakdown) and being down for the next boat. 'When is it', I asked. '1700'.

The children (teenagers) went for a walk and my wife and I went to sleep. Half an hour later there was an announcement that people should start to move to the boat. It's 1500. The children came running back, having heard the tannoy. I asked the man why he had said 1700 when the boat was at 1530. 'You don't expect me to know when the boats go, do you?' was the helpful reply from the booking clerk.

Oh, and the time when I arrived at calais with a ticket booked to pick up. It wasn't ready and the girl in the ticket desk didn't even know how to make out a ticket.

I thoroughly sympathise with U-boats sinking cross Channel ferries. I doubt that most of them would notice.

I too swore never to use them again when the Tunnel opened, but never expected the Tunnel to get into bed with them - at the time of the fire. Now they've priced themselves out of the market.

Fact is, that with no competition except SpeedFerries, P&O can do what they like; and do.

[Dragon]

To me the most infuriating and illogical aspect was letting thousands of cars check in when the facilities were completely unsuitable for mass holding: it was insanitary, there was no food and no water which was suitable to drink and nowhere heated for vulnerable people to warm up. Some of us would have been very happy to have simply turned round and driven off into France or Belgium while there was still time to find accommodation, thus making the best of it and actually doing something enjoyable with the enforced stay. As it was a late autumn crossing, a cold early November, I’m sure that some less robust travellers would have suffered health-wise.

I have to add that some lorry drivers were very helpful to people, offering to use their in-cab facilities to heat water for drinks. Seeing their patience and realising that they are often forced to queue in circumstances which private motorists would find intolerable has made me much more open-minded in my attitude to truck drivers.

Gwyn

[Max Poilu]

Unless you can afford the tunnel I can only recommend Speedferries (as I have gone on and on about in many previous threads... , why unless a fried breakfast on the boat is that important would you go any other way! I used P&O for 25 years but never again.

It's the cheapest by far, the most flexible booking, very quick, very quiet, friendly staff, drops you in a far more pleasant town with endless places to eat, just as quick to the Somme, no smoking, no hoards of coach travellers, no political tie-ins with Dover, no striking French men every few months, no waiting to dock at Calais etc, etc...

[shinglma]

I normally use the tunnel but have yet to travel on the train on which I was booked!

On one occasion we were just plain late and suffered accordingly. On another occasion we were early and got an earlier crossing. Fair do.

However on another occasion we arrived early and were asked if we would like an earlier crossing. On queuing up in the boarding lines we discovered we had instead been put on a later crossing!

Every other time we have arrived prior to the check-in time only to be put on a later train than we expected. No serious delays but it seems to be a lottery.

Mike

[healdav]

And they are now trying to charge you for 'letting' you go on an earlier train.

SpeedFerries don't have trouble at Boulogne (and probably won't except in exceptional circumstances) as the town was so delighted to see the service start and use facilities that P&O had abandoned 10 years and more ago (with no notice, even to the staff) that when the first ferry arrived the mayor and all the council were on the quayside to welcome them.

The locals know which side their bread is buttered.

For me Boulogne is a bit more expensive at the moment as there is no point crossing the Ardeens to Namur, I go via Metz/ Nancy and Rheims, which is a toll road, but it is well worth it.

[Dragon]

And they are now trying to charge you for 'letting' you go on an earlier train.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they? At any time of the day or night? Customer focus is evidently a priority.

I have never used the Tunnel in the day time, always at night (4 am-ish from UK) and the trains at that time are so infrequent and empty that they have tended to let you travel on whatever the next one is, regardless of whether it's earlier than the booked crossing.

It's been the same with late night returns.

Gwyn

[healdav]

That's the last I heard. I haven't used the trains for several years. Far too expensive for anyone but a bloated plutocrat.

Why they are insisting on pricing themselves out of the market is a complete mystery.