ASC CQMS / Staff Sgt Shoulder straps.

[Simon Birch]

Does any one have pictures of the above - premsumably there is a difference. It relates to a case of naming a currently unknown CQMS in the ASC - the potential identification will turn on what was on their shoulder straps.

The concentration report clearly says CQMS on his shoulder strap, and if so then there is only one candidate. However, there is also an unknown Staff Sgt, which will come into play if there is little or no difference in their shoulder straps.

Any help would really be useful.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

47 minutes ago, Simon Birch said:

Does any one have pictures of the above - premsumably there is a difference. It relates to a case of naming a currently unknown CQMS in the ASC - the potential identification will turn on what was on their shoulder straps.

The concentration report clearly says CQMS on his shoulder strap, and if so then there is only one candidate. However, there is also an unknown Staff Sgt, which will come into play if there is little or no difference in their shoulder straps.

Any help would really be useful.

Simon

Shoulder straps only bore shoulder titles (after 1907) Simon.  Rank distinctions were on the arm so I’m not sure what you mean?  In the infantry colour sergeants wore a different badge in full dress to undress, but in the ASC the badge of rank was standard for all forms of dress.

It’s also important to distinguish in context between the generic ‘staff sergeant’ - similar to ‘staff officer’ - and the staff sergeant rank.

A CQMS was a company level appointment and so if a twisted cord was worn on any of his uniforms (depending on period** and garment) then it would be in worsted, whereas a staff sergeant in a unit headquarters appointment would have the same twisted cord in bullion wire.

I hope that helps.

** at one stage tunics bore twisted shoulder cords and on another flat cloth straps with metal titles.

Edited 29 April by FROGSMILE

[Simon Birch]

I thought it a little odd I must admit, because I would have the thought the arm was a better bet - what we are working to is:

Which is what made us wonder about the shoulder straps, even though it seemed a bit odd. But, frankly, I am way out of my comfort zone.

Simon

 

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, Simon Birch said:

I thought it a little odd I must admit, because I would have the thought the arm was a better bet - what we are working to is:

Which is what made us wonder about the shoulder straps, even though it seemed a bit odd. But, frankly, I am way out of my comfort zone.

Simon

 

It doesn’t make any sense at all Simon unless they knew that one possibility for identification was, say a CQMS with a known Territorial Force unit, and the other was a staff sergeant in a regular ASC unit.  In such a scenario it would be possible to identify the CQMS because he had a ‘Territorial’ type shoulder title.  That is the only circumstance I can think of where an identification would be possible via the shoulder title on a “shoulder strap”. 

Edited 29 April by FROGSMILE

[Simon Birch]

Both candidates were regulars. I assumed that his shoulder strap had only 'ASC' on it - but that appeared to be contradicted by what the concentration form actually said. Interestingly the burial return had his rank and corps crossed out in red ink, so the grave currently has an UBS in it. I am wondering of part of the reason for the cancellation of identification is the shoulder strap red herring.

Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Simon Birch said:

Both candidates were regulars. I assumed that his shoulder strap had only 'ASC' on it - but that appeared to be contradicted by what the concentration form actually said. Interestingly the burial return had his rank and corps crossed out in red ink, so the grave currently has an UBS in it. I am wondering of part of the reason for the cancellation of identification is the shoulder strap red herring.

Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

Simon

I’m glad to try and help and can only assume either, an error, or that the type of shoulder title on a strap was associated with an individual and that he was the only ASC man present.

Edited 29 April by FROGSMILE

[jay dubaya]

2 hours ago, Simon Birch said:

The concentration report clearly says CQMS on his shoulder strap

Not quite so Simon, the means of identification is recorded as 'shoulder strap', which can only have produced a shoulder title which at the time must have been ASC and not RASC,  all other identifiable criteria must have been present on a tunic. The lack of a red OS chevron is very puzzzling as both were entitled to wear one. 

To keep continuity I think it wise to link this thread here.

[Simon Birch]

Well the plot thickens that’s for sure. I think we are back at square one which is a shame. When l found the concentration form it looked simple, but as is so often the cas, the devil is in the detail.

thanks for your help gents.

Simon