Devonshire and Connaught Rangers Soldier

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Tony Farnan said:

So that is that is 18406 sorted

Actually - not quite - did you ever find out/clarify if 18406 or 18405?

M

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Ah yes, sooooo embarassing!  Definitely brain fog yesterday.

I agree a pre-fix more normal and a suffix would have been unusual and I mentioned that yesterday - so not completely duff - but certainly duff enough with the last two digits 

So that is that is 18406 sorted - but no battalion off that MIC

M

I wasn’t point scoring at all and totally understand the logic that you were following and the open mindedness necessary to do so.  I mentioned the Battalion enumerator prefix principle as being inviolate, purely with the aim of cementing it in the mind of the original poster as he proceeds with his research.

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I mentioned the Battalion enumerator prefix principle as being inviolate purely to cement it in the mind of the original poster as he proceeds with his research.

Thanks - you have also reminded/reassured me and good for the OP too  

Wish we could find more to assist him - still looking as best I can! [sadly my resources and knowledge can be are limited]

M

Edited 24 April by Matlock1418

[Tony Farnan]

20 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Actually - not quite - did you ever find out/clarify if 18406 or 18405?

M

That’s still a mystery, The medal roll shows 18406 but one MIC shows 18405 and the other is 18406. I guess that could be an error on the MIC showing it as 18405 as its handwritten?

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, Tony Farnan said:

That’s still a mystery, The medal roll shows 18406 but one MIC shows 18405 and the other is 18406. I guess that could be an error on the MIC showing it as 18405 as its handwritten?

That does seem very likely and the final numbers are similarly shaped too when compared with others.  Human error wasn’t uncommon among the clerks who had a repetitive job and huge numbers to deal with (it was the largest Army Britain has ever put into the field).  They were often dealing with hand written as well as typed documentary sources of information, so given the sheer scale of the effort some errors were inevitable. 

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Tony Farnan said:

That’s still a mystery, The medal roll shows 18406 but one MIC shows 18405 and the other is 18406. I guess that could be an error on the MIC showing it as 18405 as its handwritten?

There will be two Medal Rolls.

The MR are probably usually considered the more authoritative documents for numbers, notably the BWM & VM one as his last unit compiled it [that's confirmed by the Cork Medal Office A/102B roll number - though there is 18405 on that particular MIC] ... But what went on the two MIC was meant to be impressed into the medals.

Fortunately on both MIC that appears to have been 11758, Devonshire Regt, as his first unit in a ToW - so making 18406 [ie less the 15] or 18405 Connaught Rangers irrelevant for the medals.

M

Edited 24 April by Matlock1418
cork

[Tony Farnan]

28 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

There will be two Medal Rolls.

The MR are probably usually considered the more authoritative documents for numbers, notably the BWM & VM one as his last unit compiled it [that's confirmed by the Cork Medal Office A/102B roll number - though there is 18405 on that particular MIC] ... But what went on the two MIC was meant to be impressed into the medals.

Fortunately on both MIC that appears to have been 11758, Devonshire Regt, as his first unit in a ToW - so making 18406 [ie less the 15] or 18405 Connaught Rangers irrelevant for the medals.

M

Yes that’s correct.

shame, I’m still no closer to identifying his Conn Rangers Btn?

I guess some facts just can’t be verified without his full army records

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Tony Farnan said:

Yes that’s correct.

shame, I’m still no closer to identifying his Conn Rangers Btn?

I guess some facts just can’t be verified without his full army records

If you read back through the thread to Ken’s comments, it seems to me that 5th Bn Connaught Rangers is the most likely.  Soldiers did not routinely move individually, but as part of a draft of reinforcements (battle casualty replacements), and there are apparently several other men ex 1/5th Devon’s and 10th Devon’s who went to 5th Connaught’s.

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[Tony Farnan]

45 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

If you read back through the thread to Ken’s comments, it seems to me that 5th Bn Connaught Rangers is the most likely.  Soldiers did not routinely move individually, but as part of a draft of reinforcements (battle casualty replacements) and there are apparently several other men ex 1/5th Devon’s and 10th Devon’s who went to 5th Connaught’s.

yes I did think Ken’s post was the most likely answer and you also agree so thank you to all who took the time to contribute to my post.

5th Connaught Rangers it is then 👍😊

[Tony Farnan]

Just an update,

found pension docs for private Higgins and the screenshot below confirms that he was in the 5th Connaught Rangers. As his army number is very close to that of private Beckett I think this confirms  that he was also in the 5th Btn .

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Tony Farnan said:

Just an update,

found pension docs for private Higgins and the screenshot below confirms that he was in the 5th Connaught Rangers. As his army number is very close to that of private Beckett I think this confirms  that he was also in the 5th Btn .

It does look like it I agree.

From the LongLongTrail:

5th (Service) Battalion
“Formed at Dublin in August 1914 as part of K1 and placed under orders of 29th Brigade in 10th (Irish) Division. Moved to Kilworth but back to Dublin in October. Moved to the Curragh in January 1915.
May 1915 : moved to Hackwood Park (Basingstoke).
9 July 1915: embarked at Devonport and sailed to Gallipoli via Mudros.
Landed Anzac Cove 5 August 1915.
30 September 1915 : moved via Mudros to Salonika.
September 1917 : moved to Egypt for service in Palestine.
30 April 1918 : left the Division and sailed from Port Said, arriving Marseilles 1 June.
23 July 1918 : came briefly under command of 14th (Light) Division.
22 July 1918 : placed under command of 197th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division.”

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[kenf48]

As you have now found Pte Higgins record you will see his declaration that he served seven months in France which given his discharge date more or less accords with his posting to the BEF in October 1918, presumably still a Devonshire soldier.  Pte 18303 Ainsworth's record is much more comprehensive and as above shows he was renumbered and posted to the 5th Connaught Rangers on the 8th November 1918, joining the Battalion on the 16th November 1918.

I think there is a high degree of certainty Pte Beckett was either in that draft, or a later one, in any event the numbering was post Armistice.

As for Pte Beckett's service in the Devonshire Regiment 11755 Barwick enlisted in the 10th Battalion on the 9th September 1914, and went with the Battalion to France (22.9.1915) and then onward to Salonica in November.  I suspect you are right and when these men came back from that theatre after repatriation, in all probability due to malaria they were posted to the BEF and the 1/5 before they were posted to the Connaught Rangers. The date of posting to the 1/5 to be determined although in Higgin's case we know when he was posted to the BEF so it seems likely he did not serve in the field with that Battalion, or if he did it was less than a month.

[Tony Farnan]

5 hours ago, kenf48 said:

e or less accords with his posting to the BEF in October 1918, presumably still a Devonshire soldier.  Pte 18303 Ainsworth's record is much more comprehensive and as above shows he was renumbered and posted to the 5th Connaught Rangers on the 8th November 1918, joining the Battalion on the 16th November 1918.

I think there is a high degree of certainty Pte Beckett was either in that draft, or a later one, in any event the numbering was post Armistice.

As for Pte Beckett's service in the Devonshire Regiment 11755 Barwick enlisted in the 10th Battalion on the 9th September 1914, and went with the Battalion to France (22.9.1915) and then onward to Salonica in November.  I suspect you are right and when these men came back from that theatre after repatriation, in all probability due to malaria they were posted to the BEF and the 1/5 before they were posted to the Connaught Rangers. The date of posting to the 1/5 to be determined although in Higgin's case we know when he was posted to the BEF so it seems likely he did not serve in the field with that Battalion, or if he did it was less than a month.

Thanks for such a detailed post with lots of info. I think you’ve given me a very good idea of Beckett’s service history 👍