Devonshire and Connaught Rangers Soldier

[Tony Farnan]

Hi there,

 I’m hoping someone can help me identify which Connaught Rangers Btn a specific army number would’ve been attached to.

The army number is 18406 or 1840615 and the soldier it relates to transferred to the Connaught Rangers from the 10th or 1/5th Devonshire regiments. I’ve checked his medal entitlement roll page and it just lists the Conn Rangers as probably his last regiment but unfortunately it doesn’t state which battalion he was attached to.

any Connaught Rangers experts out there who maybe able to help?

Many thanks

[jay dubaya]

When asking for help relating to a specific soldier I find it helps tremendously if a name is given...

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Tony Farnan said:

I’m hoping someone can help me identify which Connaught Rangers Btn a specific army number would’ve been attached to.

The army number is 18406 or 1840615 and the soldier it relates to transferred to the Connaught Rangers from the 10th or 1/5th Devonshire regiments. I’ve checked his medal entitlement roll page and it just lists the Conn Rangers as probably his last regiment but unfortunately it doesn’t state which battalion he was attached to.

Welcome to GWF

There's a 1914-15 Star MIC for W. BECKETT, 10th Devon 11758 and Connaught,1840615

The latter is seven digit and seems post-war - I suppose his record might still be with the MoD / on its way to TNA

M

Edited 23 April by Matlock1418
medal detail

[kenf48]

22 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

I find it helps tremendously if a name is given...

No matter we are of course mind readers 

or wild guess 18406 Richard Beckett formerly 11755 1/5th Bn and then 10th Battalion Devonshire Regiment

No idea about the seven digit number the Connaught Rangers began at 71430001 - and ended at 7177000 (LLT)

Perhaps @Tony Farnan would care to confirm this is the soldier he is seeking assistance with.

The 10th Devonshire served in Salonika and the 1/5th in India.  The 5th Connaught Rangers were also in Salonika

[Matlock1418]

6 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

No idea about the seven digit number the Connaught Rangers began at 71430001 - and ended at 7177000 (LLT)

Ooh, that opens up another puzzle.

Hope the OP gets back soon [or later]

M

Edited 23 April by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

A name would certainly help.

Connaught Rangers

18405, Sidney DENSHAM = ex-Devons 1017

18406, 

18407, Frederick CORAM = ex-Devons 22043

If service records are available [I can't see] perhaps these, or other, near numbers might offer an insight ??

M

Edited 23 April by Matlock1418
forenames

[kenf48]

The only (incomplete) record I can find is 11994 Pte Higgins 1/5 and 10th Devonshire Regiment posted to 5th Connaught Rangers 

The LLT says this about the 5th:-

30 September 1915 : moved via Mudros to Salonika.
September 1917 : moved to Egypt for service in Palestine.
30 April 1918 : left the Division and sailed from Port Said, arriving Marseilles 1 June.
23 July 1918 : came briefly under command of 14th (Light) Division.
22 July 1918 : placed under command of 197th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division.

Pte Higgins is shown as joining BEF on  8 October 1918 and yet his self declaration in his pension application states France 2 months; Salonika 2yrs 10 months and finally France 7 months in the infantry.

He was suffering from malaria and a note on his record states he was not to be posted to a theatre where the disease was prevalent.  My guess therefore is that a group of men from the 10th Devonshire were posted to the 5th Connaught Rangers when they left Salonica where the disease was endemic.

His service in the Devons reflects that of Pte Beckett i.e. enlistment September 1914 - BEF 22.9.1915 - MEF 14.11.15 (Higgins contracted malaria May 1917)

[Matlock1418]

 

38 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

The only (incomplete) record I can find is 11994 Pte Higgins 1/5 and 10th Devonshire Regiment posted to 5th Connaught Rangers 

W. BECKETT, 10th Devon 11758 and Connaught,1840615

Just wondering if 1840615 could actually be 18406/5 ???

The MIC makes it look like the former, but ... could it perhaps be suggestive of 5 CR too ???

M

Edit: 

In addtion to that MIC for a 1914-15 Star MIC for W. BECKETT, 10th Devon 11758 and Connaught,1840615 [or 18406/5].  Or is 1840615 [or 18406/5] a dodgy correction/alternative of 5 instead of 6 ???

... BECKETT again seems in the right zone for the OP's enquiry - there is a BWM & VM MIC citing the 10th DR and 1/5th DR, 11758, and the CR, 18405 - as Richard BECKETT [see also Ken's post above]

Now we need to also sort out his forename W or Richard  ??

Edited 23 April by Matlock1418
edit

[Tony Farnan]

Sorry for not replying sooner, I got caught up in work.

thanks for all your quick replies, it is all a bit confusing with this chap.

His name is W.Beckett or Richard Beckett,

Army no. 11758 1/5th Devonshire and 10th Devonshire Btn then 18406 or 1840615 Conn Rangers. The name is confusing because I found 2 medal cards for the same soldier but one says ‘Richard’ and the other says ‘W’?

I’d like to track his movements but am struggling to piece it together

 

11758 PTE  W.  (Richard?)   BECKETT 

[Michelle Young]

He has two MIC as you say. One shows his 15 star.FWIW, I think the number is 18406/5

[Tony Farnan]

Yes 2 cards, a separate one for his Star

[Tony Farnan]

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The only (incomplete) record I can find is 11994 Pte Higgins 1/5 and 10th Devonshire Regiment posted to 5th Connaught Rangers 

The LLT says this about the 5th:-

30 September 1915 : moved via Mudros to Salonika.
September 1917 : moved to Egypt for service in Palestine.
30 April 1918 : left the Division and sailed from Port Said, arriving Marseilles 1 June.
23 July 1918 : came briefly under command of 14th (Light) Division.
22 July 1918 : placed under command of 197th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division.

Pte Higgins is shown as joining BEF on  8 October 1918 and yet his self declaration in his pension application states France 2 months; Salonika 2yrs 10 months and finally France 7 months in the infantry.

He was suffering from malaria and a note on his record states he was not to be posted to a theatre where the disease was prevalent.  My guess therefore is that a group of men from the 10th Devonshire were posted to the 5th Connaught Rangers when they left Salonica where the disease was endemic.

His service in the Devons reflects that of Pte Beckett i.e. enlistment September 1914 - BEF 22.9.1915 - MEF 14.11.15 (Higgins contracted malaria May 1917)

Thanks to Kenf48

I think you may have nailed it, strange about the W and Richard though?

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

He has two MIC as you say. One shows his 15 star.FWIW, I think the number is 18406/5

As earlier, I think that can be the likely explanation - in which case 5th Bn seems likely .... but then the first five digits are wrong so perhaps a dodgy correction ???

M

[Tony Farnan]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

W. BECKETT, 10th Devon 11758 and Connaught,1840615

Just wondering if 1840615 could actually be 18406/5 ???

The MIC makes it look like the former, but ... could it perhaps be suggestive of 5 CR too ???

M

Edit: 

In addtion to that MIC for a 1914-15 Star MIC for W. BECKETT, 10th Devon 11758 and Connaught,1840615 [or 18406/5].  Or is 1840615 [or 18406/5] a dodgy correction/alternative of 5 instead of 6 ???

... BECKETT again seems in the right zone for the OP's enquiry - there is a BWM & VM MIC citing the 10th DR and 1/5th DR, 11758, and the CR, 18405 - as Richard BECKETT [see also Ken's post above]

Now we need to also sort out his forename W or Richard  ??

Yes I think your right to, it could be 18406/5 instead of 1849615 but what does 18496/5 mean?

[Tony Farnan]

1 minute ago, Tony Farnan said:

Yes I think your right to, it could be 18406/5 instead of 1849615 but what does 18496/5 mean?

Correction - 18406/5

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, Tony Farnan said:

Yes I think your right to, it could be 18406/5 instead of 1849615 but what does 18496/5 mean?

See also my recent last post ...

Most typically if a battalion number pre-fix was to be indicated it would be on the lines of 9/12345 and not 12345/9 as a suffix

It is peculiar

M

Edited 23 April by Matlock1418

[Tony Farnan]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

See also my recent last post ...

Most typically if a battalion number pre-fix was to be indicated it would be on the lines of 9/12345 and not 12345/9

It is peculiar

M

Please excuse my ignorance but I’m learning as I go along with this research, but the prefix, are you saying that 18406/5 is actually 5/18406 and that the 5/ could relate to 5 Btn?

[Matlock1418]

Just now, Tony Farnan said:

Please excuse my ignorance but I’m learning as I go along with this research, but the prefix, are you saying that 18406/5 is actually 5/18406 and that the 5/ could relate to 5 Btn?

Yes, that's the usual general gist of things and what I first hypothesised.  Then came my idea about a possible dodgy correction.

However one MIC has 18405 and the other 18406 - but I think most typically pre-fixes were mostly used for four digit numbers. So ???

I'm afraid am not a numbers / CR numbers expert!

Think you do also need to now go back to the actual Medal Rolls from which the MIC were created to see what is written there.

Of course if they are the same as the MICs then we are [well I would be] still a bit stuck - if the CR did actually use a pre-fix on five digit numbers [which I don't know!]

Hopefully somebody who better knows will come along - I'm rather surprised they haven't already.

Good luck.

M

 

 

[Tony Farnan]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

Yes, that's the usual general gist of things and what I first hypothesised.  Then came my idea about a possible dodgy correction.

However one MIC has 18405 and the other 18406 - but I think most typically pre-fixes were mostly used for four digit numbers. So ???

I'm afraid am not a numbers / CR numbers expert!

Think you do also need to now go back to the actual Medal Rolls from which the MIC were created to see what is written there.

Of course if they are the same as the MICs then we are [well I would be] still a bit stuck - if the CR did actually use a pre-fix on five digit numbers [which I don't know!]

Hopefully somebody who better knows will come along - I'm rather surprised they haven't already.

Good luck.

M

 

 

Thank you M for your sound advice, I’ve researched a few soldiers but never had this trouble with army numbers and names and 2 medal cards before, it’s almost like they’re records for two different men but obviously it’s the same soldier. I’m hoping a Conn Rangers expert may see my post and offer some extra info.

thanks everyone for your responses, I not completely I the dark anymore so thank you 👍😊

[kenf48]

18303 Ainsworth was permanently posted and renumbered to the 5th Battalion Connaught Rangers on the 8th November 1918 on discharge from hospital in France following a recurrence of malaria whilst serving with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in Salonica.

He joined the Battalion in the field on the 16 November 1918.

The war diary does not show the arrival of drafts on that date.

[Tony Farnan]

9 hours ago, kenf48 said:

18303 Ainsworth was permanently posted and renumbered to the 5th Battalion Connaught Rangers on the 8th November 1918 on discharge from hospital in France following a recurrence of malaria whilst serving with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in Salonica.

He joined the Battalion in the field on the 16 November 1918.

The war diary does not show the arrival of drafts on that date.

Interesting Kenf48,

I looked up the MIC for 11994 Pte Higgins who you mentioned in an earlier post. His army no. When he transferred to the Connaught Rangers was 18409 and on the MIC it looks like 1840915 but as a couple of members have noted, this could be 18409/5 - the same situation as Pte Beckett, so maybe the /5 relates to 5th Conn Rangers? There army no’s are very similar so it looks like they were both transferred to the same rangers Btn?

Can I ask where you found the information on Pte Higgins regarding his service in Salonika? I’d like to take a look at it if available online.

many thanks again

Just now, Tony Farnan said:

Interesting Kenf48,

I looked up the MIC for 11994 Pte Higgins who you mentioned in an earlier post. His army no. When he transferred to the Connaught Rangers was 18409 and on the MIC it looks like 1840915 but as a couple of members have noted, this could be 18409/5 - the same situation as Pte Beckett, so maybe the /5 relates to 5th Conn Rangers? There army no’s are very similar so it looks like they were both transferred to the same rangers Btn?

Can I ask where you found the information on Pte Higgins regarding his service in Salonika? I’d like to take a look at it if available online.

many thanks again

Their not there, excuse my bad English 😕

[Matlock1418]

30 minutes ago, Tony Farnan said:

a couple of members have noted, this could be 18409/5 - the same situation as Pte Beckett, so maybe the /5 relates to 5th Conn Rangers?

 Doh ... another day, another MIC, and the brain fog has cleared ... it is 18409 15 Star for HIGGINS and for 18406 15 Star for BECKETT

Nothing to do with a Connaught Rangers Bn identifier!

Sorry to have been sending everyone off on a wild goose chase - in my defence, I didn't write out the card! [and nobody else has mentioned it!!]

Hoping I have now sort of redeemed myself on that particular point. 

M

Edited 24 April by Matlock1418
add

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

 Doh ... another day, another MIC, and the brain fog has cleared ... it is 18409 15 Star for HIGGINS and for 18406 15 Star for BECKETT

Nothing to do with a Connaught Rangers Bn identifier!

Sorry to have been sending everyone off on a wild goose chase - in my defence, I didn't write out the card! [and nobody else has mentioned it!!]

Hoping I have now sort of redeemed myself on that particular point. 

M

I can totally understand and sympathise with how you got enmeshed and I know very little about the regimental numbering system of that time beyond the fact that it led to some degree of chaos, especially after the officers commanding Infantry Base Depots became empowered to issue them as men were posted/compulsorily transferred.  Some men were so resentful of this pillar-to-post movement that they apparently deliberately gave out-of-date units and numbers when asked, presumably in an effort to return to their previous units.  As a general point, though, battalion enumerators given as a ‘prefix’ were invariably at the front of the regimental number rather than at its rear.  I cannot recall ever seeing a single example of a battalion enumerator given as a suffix. 

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I can totally understand and sympathise with how you got enmeshed and I know very little about the regimental numbering system of that time beyond the fact that it led to some degree of chaos, especially after the officers commanding Infantry Base Depots became empowered to issue them as men were posted/compulsorily transferred.  Some men were so resentful of this pillar-to-post movement that they apparently deliberately gave out-of-date units and numbers when asked, presumably in an effort to return to their previous units.  As a general point, though, battalion enumerators given as a ‘prefix’ were invariably at the front of the regimental number rather than at its rear.  I cannot recall ever seeing a single example of a battalion enumerator given as a suffix. 

Ah yes, sooooo embarassing!  Definitely brain fog yesterday.

I agree a pre-fix more normal and a suffix would have been unusual and I mentioned that yesterday - so not completely duff - but certainly duff enough with the last two digits 

So that is that is 18406 sorted - but no battalion off that MIC

M

[Tony Farnan]

Just now, Matlock1418 said:

Ah yes, sooooo embarassing!  Definitely brain fog yesterday.

I agree a pre-fix more normal and a suffix would have been unusual and I mentioned that yesterday - so not completely duff - but certainly duff enough with the last two digits 

So that is that is 18406 sorted - but no battalion off that MIC

M

Thanks for clarifying, so we’re still no closer to identifying which Conn Ranger Btns Higgins and Beckett were transferred to?

I think they both started with the 10th Devonshire then transferred to the 1/5th Devonshire. Both MIC’s for the 14/15 star show the theatre of war as France and the date is 22/09. The 10th landed in France on 23/09 but only for a short while before being shipped to Salonika. The 1/5th I believe served in Egypt first then landed in France much later.

please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m learning as go 😊