Clenners Posted 25 April Author Share Posted 25 April Thanks again for all your help. It has been intriguing trying to solve the mystery! I feel I am getting close to understanding some of his story now. His death left a lot of ill feeling at the time and caused family division and so only small bits of information was passed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April The FGCM was in Feb 1916, when he got 18 months HL. he was KIA A 5 months later so something happened between sentence and death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 8 minutes ago, corisande said: The FGCM was in Feb 1916, when he got 18 months HL. he was Kai A 5 months later so something happened between sentence and death Thank you corisande, I was surprised when it looked as if he served sentence. By 1916 there was an official policy that convicted men sentenced to hard labour had their sentences deferred in some way because of fears men would otherwise deliberately commit offences to avoid combatant duty. As I understand it they were punished in other ways by e.g. not being permitted to leave the unit lines when out on rest, and being placed on fatigue duties and field punishment No 1, etc. Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April 4 minutes ago, Clenners said: Thanks again for all your help. It has been intriguing trying to solve the mystery! I feel I am getting close to understanding some of his story now. His death left a lot of ill feeling at the time and caused family division and so only small bits of information was passed on. I’m still puzzled about when he joined the Royal Irish Rifles given that your photos show him in Royal Irish Fusiliers uniform in 1911+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clenners Posted 25 April Author Share Posted 25 April i asked my mother about the phots and she is sure it is him. There were other close family relatives in the war so it is possible that it is one of them but I have his name written on the photos by an older relative from years back. The court martial for drunkeness occurred 12 days after his daughter was born - possibly a connection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 14 minutes ago, Clenners said: i asked my mother about the phots and she is sure it is him. There were other close family relatives in the war so it is possible that it is one of them but I have his name written on the photos by an older relative from years back. The court martial for drunkeness occurred 12 days after his daughter was born - possibly a connection! It’s important that I empathise that the two regiments uniforms were totally different, the Royal Irish Fusiliers in scarlet with shiny brass buttons, and the Royal Irish Rifles in a very dark green with black buttons. Something doesn’t add up yet. Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clenners Posted 25 April Author Share Posted 25 April This is the other picture I have of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 12 minutes ago, Clenners said: This is the other picture I have of him. That too is Royal Irish Fusiliers in full dress scarlet tunic of pre 1913 pattern. Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 27 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I’m still puzzled about when he joined the Royal Irish Rifles given that your photos show him in Royal Irish Fusiliers uniform in 1911+ Which is also confirmed by the 1911 England and Wales census that in April 1911 has him with the Royal Irish Fusiliers, yet his service number with the Royal Irish Rifles suggests he enlisted with them around the same time. I did have a look at the British Army deserter's list on Ancestry, and there is a Thomas McEvoy mentioned at least once, but it would need someone with full access to Ancestry to see whether it is our man. A trawl through the Police Gazette for 1911 might be instructive too, as if he had deserted it should have been mentioned in there at some point. Edited 25 April by Tawhiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clenners Posted 25 April Author Share Posted 25 April I believe he deserted in 1911 in connection with his sister's wedding and then re-enlisted in the RIR in Dundalk in July 1911. It would be fascinating to see the deserter's list or police gazette. I'll keep looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 25 minutes ago, Tawhiri said: Which is also confirmed by the 1911 England and Wales census that in April 1911 has him with the Royal Irish Fusiliers, yet his service number with the Royal Irish Rifles suggests he enlisted with them around the same time. I did have a look at the British Army deserter's list on Ancestry, and there is a Thomas McEvoy mentioned at least once, but it would need someone with full access to Ancestry to see whether it is our man. A look at the Police Gazette for 1911 might be instructive too, as if he had deserted it should have been mentioned in there at some point. Yes it’s entirely possible that he went absent without leave (AWOL) from the Royal Irish Fusiliers and then reenlisted with the Royal Irish Rifles near his home in Belfast. This wasn’t uncommon in order to claim the cash bounty on enlistment, although it was risky if caught as it was fraud and declared a prevalent offence that would attract a custodial sentence in a civilian prison. However, many men had lost their birth certificates and could use middle names, etc. There were no computers of course and clerical administration was all via easily obfuscated ledgers and card indexes. Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April 3 minutes ago, Clenners said: I believe he deserted in 1911 in connection with his sister's wedding and then re-enlisted in the RIR in Dundalk in July 1911. It would be fascinating to see the deserter's list or police gazette. I'll keep looking. That would make sense of his movement between regiments. I suspect that he might have applied for leave in the Fusiliers and been turned down, so compelling him to go AWOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clenners Posted 25 April Author Share Posted 25 April Can you tell if he was wounded? He must have been back in Belfast in 1915. Were soldiers allowed home on leave at this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 3 minutes ago, Clenners said: Can you tell if he was wounded? He must have been back in Belfast in 1915. Were soldiers allowed home on leave at this time? Routines for organised leave didn’t commence until 1916 if I recall correctly. Before that he might have been wounded and then at home on convalescent recovery perhaps. Casualties including wounded were listed regularly in the London TIMES newspaper until 1917 I think. Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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