PhilB Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 Remembering those men who faced the first gas attack at Langemarck, when chlorine was released 90 years ago today. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 Remembering those men who faced the first gas attack at Langemarck, when chlorine was released 90 years ago today. Phil B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed, and I believe there'll be a special "Last Post" ceremony at the Menin Gate this evening to commemorate the event. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 I have built up quite a good collection of medals to the 1st Canadian Division for 2nd Ypres, but the only casualty I have for 22 April, the first day, is a single star to 20140 Pte. William A. Totten, 10th Bn, a 25-year old Irishman who apparently died that day. I say apparently because in his records his death is listed as "on or since 22 April", although the CWGC gives the date as the 22nd. Totten's 1914-15 star is the earliest CEF casualty I have, as 2nd Ypres was the Canadians' first major battle, although a few men died in the trenches before 22 April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 The Battle of Gravenstafel Ridge-The First Gas Attack, 22 April The morning and early afternoon of Thursday, 22 April, a bright sunny day, brought no variation from the daily routine of the troops of the 1st Canadian Division. The 2nd and 3rd Brigades were in the line, and at Vlamertinghe the 1st Brigade, alerted for possible action at Hill 60, continued training. Shortly before 3:00 p.m. the 3rd Brigade received notification of one hundred mouth organs waiting to be picked up at Divisional Headquarters.31 The Salient had been under fairly heavy shelling since the l9th, the German fire being directed mainly on roads and bridges north and east of Ypres. There was a lull during the afternoons but, soon after four o'clock the French front line on the north of the Salient came under a violent bombardment, which gradually shifted to the Canadian sector. At five o'clock the Germans opened the valves of the gas cylinders* for from six to eight minutes, releasing more than one hundred and sixty tons of chlorine into a light north-east wind. The first warning to the Canadians was the sound of small-arms fire and the rapid discharge of French 75s coming from the northern flank. Almost simultaneously the 3rd Brigade reported "a cloud of green vapour several hundred yards in length" between the French trenches and the enemy's front line.33 The chlorine drifted southward at five or six miles an hour, producing an initial concentration about half a mile in depth. It caught in its deadly embrace the Tirailleurs and African Light Infantry holding the Langemarck sector and the Territorials of the 87th Division farther west. Source: Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War - Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919, Colonel G. W. L. Nicholson, C.D., Army Historical Section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 22 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2005 I say apparently because in his records his death is listed as "on or since 22 April", although the CWGC gives the date as the 22nd. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Could it be because the attack of 10 & 16 Bns CEF was around midnight? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 I believe the attack at Ypres was the first on the Western Front. Ludendorff mentioned a prior attack in Russia, which failed. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zijde26 Posted 22 April , 2005 Share Posted 22 April , 2005 The Belgian newspaper 'De Standaard' paid a lot of attention to the commemoration of this ww1 gas attack, How was it in the UK and FR ? Gilbert Deraedt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Nothing!! Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 It seems that the first gas-attack was in France -end of 1914 - but it failed - and forgotten.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 That`s 2 claims for a gas attack prior to 22/4/15, but I can`t find any reference to them? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Ludendorff wrote in his memoirs 'Ludendorffs Own Story Vol 1': 'The Ninth [German] Army was to attack in full force in the neighbourhood of Ballimow at the end of January [1915]. For the purpose our General Headquarters placed eighteen thousand rounds of gas shells at our disposal... The attack took place on January 31st. The weather was too cold for a gas attack, though that as yet we did not realise. Other things too did not go as we could have wished.' Foulkes noted ('Gas! The Story of the Special Brigade): 'But it seems probable that the Germans used gas shells even before January 1915 [as a quotation in a post-war article admitted] that the first German gas shells were fired on 27th October 1914, owing to the French having used shells containing an "irritating gas" some days previously. The excuse made is true to type... as it takes months of experiment before a gas shell can be designed and produced. Another French writer... says that 3000 gas shells were fired by the Germans on 27th October 1914 at Neuve Chapelle. The shells were of a special shrapnel type: they were called "No 1" and contained a sternutatory [sneezing] powder, but their effect was so poor little notice was taken of them.' Ludendorff recorded that the first cloud gas attack against the Russians took place on 2nd May. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 I read about the gas-attack in France in a German book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 I don`t think a powder counts as a gas, Robert! I get the impression that the German attack planned for Jan 15 may have been cancelled because it was too cold? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Phil Strictly speaking, you are correct about the powder. The literature on 'gas' warfare mentions other particulate agents, notably arsenicals under the generic term. The basic message relates to the introduction of chemical agents as an entirely new form of modern warfare, which was known as gas warfare at the time. It is not clear (to me) what was in the gas shells in the two previous examples. Therefore it is still possible that 2nd Ypres was not the first true gas attack. It is possible to construe Ludendorff's statement to mean that the gas shells were not used. I only have the English translation. Even so, it seems as though the attack was negated by the cold from the way Ludendorff describes it. Ludendorff mentions : '[prior to the gas attack on 2 May] we had received a supply of gas and anticipated great tactical results from its use, as the Russians were not yet fully protected against gas. We also had reason to expect local successes from an attack by the Tenth Army, east of Suwalki, and instructions were issued accordingly.' It is possible that Ludendorff was not referring to a previous gas attack by Tenth Army. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 I think I`ll have to avoid getting too picky about gas definitions, Robert! After all, an explosive shell could be described as a gas shell, since it is the expanding gases that cause the effect. Whereas a gas shell is simply a delivery system for noxious gas. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Phil, I am not sure what lies behind your comments. The exclamation marks suggest some degree of annoyance. I am only the messenger . I just drew out references to gas warfare before Second Ypres, as defined by the persons who were there according to their usage of the word. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Missinne Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Click on 'The Great War in Flanders Fields' to find some pictures of the ceremonies on April 22, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Phil, I am not sure what lies behind your comments. The exclamation marks suggest some degree of annoyance. Robert <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not at all, Robert - I always find your comments well considered and thoughtful. The ! was to indicate that I wasn`t being totally serious. Just a follow up to the previous gas/powder question. Just nit picking, I suppose! I`ve altered the "We`ll have to avoid..." to "I`ll have to avoid..." Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Thanks Phil. Understood . Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Click on 'The Great War in Flanders Fields' to find some pictures of the ceremonies on April 22, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks, Robert - a marked contrast to events over here. I note that the people of Flanders consider it to be the first gas attack. Do you know if that is the French view? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Phil The two anecdotes quoted by Foulkes about gas attacks on the Western Front prior to 2nd Ypres were both written by Frenchmen. As for the current opinion, I couldn't say. I will check with my French colleague who has a deep interest in la Grande Guerre. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 23 April , 2005 Share Posted 23 April , 2005 Great War: Second Battle of Ypres Very comprehensive site of British, Canadian, French and German views. So far only containing the prelude of the battle and Gravenstafel, but still worth looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryewalker Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 The French Army were the first to employ it as a weapon when in the first month of the war they fired tear-gas grenades at the Germans. Allied troops were supplied with masks of cotton pads that had been soaked in urine. It was found that the ammonia in the pad neutralized the poison. Other soldiers preferred to use handkerchiefs, a sock, a flannel body-belt, dampened with a solution of bicarbonate of soda, and tied across the mouth and nose until the gas passed over. It was not until July 1915 that soldiers were given efficient gas masks and anti-asphyxiation respirators. In October 1914 the German Army began firing shrapnel shells in which the steel balls had been treated with a chemical irritant. The Germans first used chlorine gas cylinders in April 1915 when it was employed against the French Army at Ypres. Chlorine gas destroyed the respiratory organs of its victims and this led to a slow death by asphyxiation. It was important to have the right weather conditions before a gas attack could be made. When the British Army launched a gas attack on 25th September in 1915, the wind blew it back into the faces of the advancing troops. This problem was solved in 1916 when gas shells were produced for use with heavy artillery. This increased the army's range of attack and helped to protect their own troops when weather conditions were not completely ideal. The shells used were 18lb's and 4.5 inch shells. The shell have a filling plug half way down the shell. So if you find any 18lb shells or 4.5 inch shells look for the filling plug. At the end of the war, Britain dug pits in the uk and pilled the lot in and covered them up. In 1987 I was a member of a Army bomb team that uncovered 250 18 and 4.5 inch shell at Reading. All gas filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 14 May , 2005 Share Posted 14 May , 2005 I'm reading Palmer and Wallis's 'A War In Words', and a Russian soldier's diary records a gas attack on them on January 27th, 1915. 'Samoudrikin and I scramble into a peasant hut. We press ourselves against a wall, sit down and wipe our eyes. Our eyes are full of tears, we wipe them away, but they just keep coming because the shells are full of gas...(we) lie face down and just want to dig ourselves into the earth.' He doesn't say what kind of gas, but I presume tear gas. Terry, if you read this, how did you all dispose of those shells? Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 12 June , 2005 Share Posted 12 June , 2005 I just read the regimental history of IR 49. Before their attack on the Russian front trench at Humin, own artillery prepared the attack with T-(Gas-) grenades on 2 February 1915. The attack was severely slowed down, when own troops reaches the gassed Russian trenches and had to protect themselves against the gas. Also the further advance and pressing on fleeing Russian troops was hampered by own gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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