Cost of Pattern 1907 Bayonets since 2020

[navydoc16]

Probably a controversial question pose, likely to get every answer from "I fished it out of a bin for free" to "I felt I no longer needed a left kidney" 

BUT - GENERIC MAKER PATTERN 1907 + SCABBARD IN GOOD CONDITION- What are you seeing and buying them for from arms and antiques dealers across the world?

I understand that the local flea market might sell a single 1907 for cheap out of a car boot, but I am specifically chasing responses and imput from the serious collectors: going to shows and buying from average Militaria dealer and collectors ect. (basically folks who know what they are selling) 

I have simply noticed whilst going through my books that I am paying double for bayonets than I was picking up 5-10 years ago.

I am also sure that a lot of on here with more substantial collections would like to think we or our kids might be able to get out for at least a break even price. 

Wondering if the price across the world is relatively stable and also wether the value is being retained at the "collector" level.

kind regards,

g

Edited 5 April by navydoc16

[mcb9022]

Hi there navydoc16

Sounds like an interesting survey. Are you only interested in the prices from shows and militaria dealers? I buy the absolute majority of my P1907's from private individuals on an online market place here in Norway. Would you be interested in the approximate price range that I have paid for P1907 bayonets from this maket place?

Cheers

Mark

[Terrylee]

In South Africa the prices can vary greatly according to the maker, with the most expensive being those manufactured locally during the Second World War.

[Dave66]

Given up buying them here in the uk now as just far too expensive, not really seeing them at the flea either, but average price £120-£160 for nothing really special, not much difference to be honest between flea and militaria market prices.

I have started picking up the Ww2 variants now instead and growing that side of the collection…even brought an SA80 bayonet the other week.

Dave.

[JMB1943]

Navydoc,

I know that I will check back on the results of your survey every so often.

It seems to me that prices took-off about 4-5 years ago, and that my main collecting focus (British Patt. 1907) that were $60-75 became $110-120 and above.

Having retired 11 years ago, I have lived on my savings plus Social Security here in the US; the Soc. Sec. payment is increased each year, thankfully, based on the inflation rate of the previous year: this is the Cost of Living Adjustment, COLA). I thought it might be interesting/instructive to look at the COLA adjustments, since they were first based upon inflation in 1975.

The table shows that a $10.00 bayonet in 1974 should now cost about 5x that amount 50 yrs later.

It also indicates that prices should have increased only (!!) about 25% since around 2018, but they have obviously increased much more, esp. the higher-end items.

"World Bayonets, 1800 to Present," by Anthony Carter) with 1987/88 Price Guide lists average of 15 Pound Sterling for VGC Patt. '07 w/scabbard (NOT HQ) and about 3x that amount for HQ bayonet. Cannot quite bring myself to delve into backdated rates of Pound Sterling/US $/ AUS $ exchange.

But of course, good luck trying to get a reasonable return when you come to sell...................

Regards,

JMB

Year	COLA	$ US	Year	COLA	$ US	Year	COLA	$ US
1975	8.0	10.80	1992	3.0	23.06	2009	0.0	37.30
1976	6.4	11.49	1993	2.6	23.66	2010	0.0	37.30
1977	5.9	12.17	1994	2.8	24.32	2011	3.6	38.64
1978	6.5	12.96	1995	2.6	24.95	2012	1.7	39.30
1979	9.9	14.24	1996	2.9	25.67	2013	1.5	39.89
1980	14.3	14.86	1997	2.1	26.22	2014	1.7	40.57
1981	11.2	15.02	1998	1.3	27.00	2015	0.0	40.57
1982	7.4	16.13	1999	2.5	27.67	2016	0.3	40.69
1983	3.5	16.70	2000	3.5	28.64	2017	2.0	41.50
1984	3.5	17.28	2001	2.6	29.39	2018	2.8	42.66
1985	3.1	17.82	2002	1.4	30.56	2019	1.6	43.35
1986	1.3	18.05	2003	2.1	31.21	2020	1.3	43.91
1987	4.2	18.81	2004	2.7	32.05	2021	5.9	46.50
1988	4.0	19.56	2005	4.1	33.36	2022	8.7	40.55
1989	4.7	20.48	2006	3.3	34.46	2023	3.2	52.16
1990	5.4	21.59	2007	2.3	35.26
1991	3.7	22.38	2008	5.8	37.30

Edited 4 April by JMB1943
typo

[navydoc16]

6 hours ago, mcb9022 said:

Hi there navydoc16

Sounds like an interesting survey. Are you only interested in the prices from shows and militaria dealers? I buy the absolute majority of my P1907's from private individuals on an online market place here in Norway. Would you be interested in the approximate price range that I have paid for P1907 bayonets from this maket place?

Cheers

Mark

Hi mark yes and no, I leave it to you. I am not sure of the specifics of how bayonets ante bought and sold in each country. Militaria dealers and also collectors selling tend to somewhat know what they have and also ask a “realistic” price. 

for example if the marketplace has very cheap stuff and you only buy based on the price - then the integrity of the poll is moot. I leave it to your judgement, but I would prefer not to include the bayonets sold by someone who dosent know what it is or it’s value. 
 

kind regards

g

Edited 4 April by navydoc16

[navydoc16]

5 hours ago, Terrylee said:

In South Africa the prices can vary greatly according to the maker, with the most expensive being those manufactured locally during the Second World War.

Hi mate, in the first comment I have outline the goal and question, I know they are very rare and I don’t even have one, but I am not really asking about “special or rare” stuff. I understand we are all chasing something interesting in our bayonets, but we also look at a lot of not so special bayonets along the way. 
 

kind regards

g

[Terrylee]

With that clarification I can confirm that good Wilkinsons and Sandersons go locally for the equivalent of about $ 65 - $75. Obviously, a lot depends upon condition and presence of the scabbard. Enfields, possibly a bit more. 

Regards,

   Terry.

  

 

[navydoc16]

1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

Navydoc,

I know that I will check back on the results of your survey every so often.

It seems to me that prices took-off about 4-5 years ago, and that my main collecting focus (British Patt. 1907) that were $60-75 became $110-120 and above.

Having retired 11 years ago, I have lived on my savings plus Social Security here in the US; the Soc. Sec. payment is increased each year, thankfully, based on the inflation rate of the previous year: this is the Cost of Living Adjustment, COLA). I thought it might be interesting/instructive to look at the COLA adjustments, since they were first based upon inflation in 1975.

The table shows that a $10.00 bayonet in 1974 should now cost about 5x that amount 50 yrs later.

It also indicates that prices should have increased only (!!) about 25% since around 2018, but they have obviously increased much more, esp. the higher-end items.

"World Bayonets, 1800 to Present," by Anthony Carter) with 1987/88 Price Guide lists average of 15 Pound Sterling for VGC Patt. '07 w/scabbard (NOT HQ) and about 3x that amount for HQ bayonet. Cannot quite bring myself to delve into backdated rates of Pound Sterling/US $/ AUS $ exchange.

But of course, good luck trying to get a reasonable return when you come to sell...................

Regards,

JMB

Year	COLA	$ US	Year	COLA	$ US	Year	COLA	$ US
1975	8.0	10.80	1992	3.0	23.06	2009	0.0	37.30
1976	6.4	11.49	1993	2.6	23.66	2010	0.0	37.30
1977	5.9	12.17	1994	2.8	24.32	2011	3.6	38.64
1978	6.5	12.96	1995	2.6	24.95	2012	1.7	39.30
1979	9.9	14.24	1996	2.9	25.67	2013	1.5	39.89
1980	14.3	14.86	1997	2.1	26.22	2014	1.7	40.57
1981	11.2	15.02	1998	1.3	27.00	2015	0.0	40.57
1982	7.4	16.13	1999	2.5	27.67	2016	0.3	40.69
1983	3.5	16.70	2000	3.5	28.64	2017	2.0	41.50
1984	3.5	17.28	2001	2.6	29.39	2018	2.8	42.66
1985	3.1	17.82	2002	1.4	30.56	2019	1.6	43.35
1986	1.3	18.05	2003	2.1	31.21	2020	1.3	43.91
1987	4.2	18.81	2004	2.7	32.05	2021	5.9	46.50
1988	4.0	19.56	2005	4.1	33.36	2022	8.7	40.55
1989	4.7	20.48	2006	3.3	34.46	2023	3.2	52.16
1990	5.4	21.59	2007	2.3	35.26
1991	3.7	22.38	2008	5.8	37.30

Yes the COLA is interesting, what is more curious is the “buying capacity”. There is not a lot of tables, but generically they take an average of common products “then” and “now”- ie a bottle of coke in 1950 from a vending machine costing 5c and the same now costing $3.0- it is not in line with the inflation.

I have done a fair bit of research on the matter- especially when folks bring up the old ads showing “generic military surplus rifle” for 25$ in 1950; but the average wage was 50$ a week. So that rifle was actually half a weeks salary. Which meant in todays money it really would still have been 500$ (all arbitrary figures, don’t quote me) 

I once looked through an old BSA catalogue then look at my fathers payslips in the same year, the prices of things as a percentage of his wage is actually rather similar as they are today. He was a qualified fitter machinist and mine manager at the time, and his P14 Parker Hale “ball burnished” target rifle was a months wages and cost 4 times of the SMLE on the previous page. 

kind regards

g

[DisasterDog]

Can’t say I’ve noticed much of a change in the last 8 years I’ve been collecting, at least as far as P1907s are concerned.  It seems like good examples can be found around $100 (US) slightly less if you’re patient & active, slightly more if you need a specific example or just wait for them to come to you.  

I used to pretty much buy any example if it was $100 or less, though this led to an over abundance of the more common ones.  So I’ve sold a bunch of those & upped what I’m willing to pay for the fewer & fewer examples I need.  But even today I know of 2 different places with a couple at $125 and am, of course, still tempted…..  

 

I feel like the price of hookys has come down a bit, where they used to run $1000-2000 when you could find them, there now seems to be a selection to choose from at $800-1200.

 

Suffice to say a hooky is the only P1907 I still need as that is too far out of my price range.  And an AECo of course, but that goes without saying, hen’s teeth & all that.

[Steve1871]

When I buy P.1907 bayonets, only have 3-4? 
I generally pay more than “ average?”  Say $200 to a lot more because instead of simply trying gather all makers ( do not have list of all makers) , but I trying to get the scarce ones,  like my excellent Hookie and Tasmania issue and all. I have a very wide collection from many countries including outside the Great War.  Never enough time to get them all

[Chasemuseum]

The flavour of the markets has changed over time. I am in Oz and in the 70s and 80s used to buy a lot from USA, as the prices were dramatically cheaper than here. Just about any bayonet from the USA with shipping and landed in Oz was about half the price of buying the same item at auction or arms fair here and a further discount on the dealer price.

 

When the internet and eBay started, global prices tended to flatten.

Now Oz prices for anything other interesting Oz bayonets is cheaper than UK or USA prices. The cost of international postage has gone through the roof. So if I buy a bayonet from overseas now I do so in the anticipation that if I put it up on the market here it will sell for about half of what I have paid for it. In the last 4 weeks there have been 5 auctions of militaria here in oz, each with some bayonets. Prices for some of the bayonets were much less than they would have sold for here 10 to 20 years ago. After inflation (CPI/COLA) a big drop in price. What I think is really hitting the market here is just the country being in an economic pseudo recession (would be formally classed as in recession but our rate of immigration is so phenomenally high that it distorts numbers in the assessment and we are not formally classed as in recession).

[Terrylee]

For interest;  My standard length '07 markings.  I also include a South African "Rarity Scale" compiled by two local collectors. Obviously, this would vary from country to country and is influenced by their personal experiences.

[navydoc16]

3 hours ago, Terrylee said:

For interest;  My standard length '07 markings.  I also include a South African "Rarity Scale" compiled by two local collectors. Obviously, this would vary from country to country and is influenced by their personal experiences.

Seems you are also missing the MA proof side for the photos 

 

I think you have OA and MA mixed up between unusual and common- MA Lithgow made bayonets for only a handful of years marked MA and moved to the Orange Annex in late ‘41. The Orange Annex blades are still marked 1907 M.A. on the front but proof marked OA on the back- sorry if that makes little sense 

did you compile these tables? I have seen them a handful of times 
 

Kind regards

g

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

The flavour of the markets has changed over time. I am in Oz and in the 70s and 80s used to buy a lot from USA, as the prices were dramatically cheaper than here. Just about any bayonet from the USA with shipping and landed in Oz was about half the price of buying the same item at auction or arms fair here and a further discount on the dealer price.

 

When the internet and eBay started, global prices tended to flatten.

Now Oz prices for anything other interesting Oz bayonets is cheaper than UK or USA prices. The cost of international postage has gone through the roof. So if I buy a bayonet from overseas now I do so in the anticipation that if I put it up on the market here it will sell for about half of what I have paid for it. In the last 4 weeks there have been 5 auctions of militaria here in oz, each with some bayonets. Prices for some of the bayonets were much less than they would have sold for here 10 to 20 years ago. After inflation (CPI/COLA) a big drop in price. What I think is really hitting the market here is just the country being in an economic pseudo recession (would be formally classed as in recession but our rate of immigration is so phenomenally high that it distorts numbers in the assessment and we are not formally classed as in recession).

Yeah 100%, ebbs and flows, Light Horse gear was nutty about 20 years ago, I have a friend who is heavily invested- into 7 figures before the decimal, he believes that he will loose 30-40% in the current market. 
 

kind regards

g

[Terrylee]

The table and photos refer to both the makers and their markings which varied over the period in which their Pat. 1907s were produced. (eg Wilkinson)

Interestingly, the South African Military Archives record that at least one shipment of '07s was received from Australia during WW II resulting in the end of local production. Very understandable if quality is compared!

Terry

Edited 6 April by Terrylee

[navydoc16]

7 hours ago, Terrylee said:

The table refers to both the makers and their markings which varied over the period in which their Pat. 1907s were produced. (eg Wilkinson)

Interestingly, the South African Military Archives record that at least one shipment of '07s was received from Australia during WW II resulting in the end of local production. Very understandable if quality is compared!

Terry

Yes I was just curious if you made it the table, but yes it is wrong when referring to MA and OA in terms of rarity 

Australia has 3 sets of marking not the two shown in the photos

I will post some pictures later if I get the chance, there is Lithgow (12-21ish) MA (21-41ish) OA thereafter - but the OA was still marked MA on the front as MA stands for Munitions Australia and not the maker. 

kind regards

g

Edited 5 April by navydoc16

[DisasterDog]

The Indian variants are the ones that have jumped in price.  Even 8 years ago they were a tough sell at $20, then $50 became the standard.  Now you’re looking at $80 or more.  The cut-downs almost used to garner disdain, though it appears people have discovered it is a great way to obtain some of the uncommon manufacturers.  My only Vickers example came about in such a way, WW1 related in that regard.

[navydoc16]

3 hours ago, DisasterDog said:

The Indian variants are the ones that have jumped in price.  Even 8 years ago they were a tough sell at $20, then $50 became the standard.  Now you’re looking at $80 or more.  The cut-downs almost used to garner disdain, though it appears people have discovered it is a great way to obtain some of the uncommon manufacturers.  My only Vickers example came about in such a way, WW1 related in that regard.

Well yes that too and the fact that only until recently there was very limited information and respect for the Indian Services of WW1 and WW2.

 

they are also some of the toughest to obtain in all the various types and apart from Roses book, difficult to find reliable information on

kind regards

g

[4thGordons]

A selection of Indian made/modified/used bayonets

Edited 6 April by 4thGordons

[navydoc16]

 

14 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

A selection of Indian made/modified/used bayonets

Love it, I’ll have to send you some pics of mine later, what full lengths do you have? 
 

kind regards

g

[4thGordons]

39 minutes ago, navydoc16 said:

 

Love it, I’ll have to send you some pics of mine later, what full lengths do you have? 
 

kind regards

g

1917, 1918, 1920, 1940 and one other I will need to check.

Chris

[Steve1871]

Great help there TerryLee

On the U.S. besides Remmington, I seem to remember a listing on some site fir a Winchester made one. I not sure it was for 1907  but I believe so. 

[navydoc16]

1 hour ago, Steve1871 said:

Great help there TerryLee

On the U.S. besides Remmington, I seem to remember a listing on some site fir a Winchester made one. I not sure it was for 1907  but I believe so. 

I am not aware of Winchester ever being approached for the 1907. Do you have any further info? 
 

kind regards

g

[Steve1871]

I could be wrong, will have to check. I know Winchester made bayonets for P13. P14. I thought saw advert. For P07. Hope can find the ad in a day or two

[Steve1871]

My mistake guys, it was a few P1913 Winchester bayonets, I just remembered the basically same long profile and got mixed up in my poor old memory