Help to identify unknown insignia please.

[Dave66]

Thank you all for your help…unknown European it is.

I’ve been able to decipher the  newspaper cutting asking for information about a missing R.A.M.C. Officer, He was Captain A.P. Smith, missing in the Dardanelles….Alfred Percy Smith died on the 23-8-15 and is recorded on the Helles memorial.

Dave

Edited 2 April by Dave66

[GreyC]

Again 1915.

Perhaps the whole package was put together in that year?

GreyC

[Dave66]

2 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Again 1915.

Perhaps the whole package was put together in that year?

GreyC

I think so, yes, may well have been a relative or sibling of Smith but that would need quite a bit more digging to provide some sort of link when I have an ancestry subscription.

[bierast]

On 01/04/2024 at 23:01, GreyC said:

Hi,

can´t really say much more other than below the postal order is a Prussian cockade, by the looks of it (size) it could be an officer´s one. And the clipping refering to the POW mentions the northern part of the Western front, which could mean Flanders? The strap was probably collected before the middle of 1915, as of 20.01.1915 the blouse 1915 was introduced with diffrent looking straps. However, it took a while until all got their new uniforms. The rusty tinbadge seems to be German memorabilia as it says "Weltkrieg 1914-1915". So the strap and the memorabilia can be dated relatively early in the war.

The Feldbluse was officially introduced (except for Bavaria, which took a little longer) in September 1915, and was not commonly seen at the front until 1916.

The 40. Infanterie-Division - including IR 181 - was in fact briefly on the Eastern Front from November 1917 (following the horrific fighting at Houthulst Forest). They returned to the west in the last days of February 1918. Other than this brief period they were indeed entirely on the Western Front.

Edited 25 April by bierast

[Dave66]

Many thanks bierast…most helpful.

Dave.

[GreyC]

1 hour ago, bierast said:

was in fact briefly on the Eastern Front

Thanks for that.

GreyC

[bierast]

18 hours ago, Dave66 said:

Many thanks bierast…most helpful.

No problem. I would say that realistically this could well have come from IR 181 as late as either of 40. Inf. Div.'s tours on the Somme - especially the first one. Up to that point the regiment had not suffered serious losses since 1914 (they had been holding the line just south of Ploegsteert Wood pretty much solidly) and will have had a consequently low level of turnover in personnel and kit. By the second tour there would have been a lot of men wearing the Feldbluse (especially replacements and returning convalescents), but it certainly wouldn't have become remotely universal.


 

[Dave66]

Fascinating stuff….thankyou.

The Red Cross arm band that came in the tin with the other stuff was issued to 47th and 45th Casualty Clearing Station, if we look at their locations (pic fron LLT below), is it possible to tie in with the position of the 181st to narrow down the time frame further.

I don’t suppose I will ever find the identity of the chap who collected this stuff, but there must be a Medical corps connection with the arm band and captain smiths newspaper clip, did the shoulder board come from a POW that was treated in a CCS, was he the POW in the newspaper clip….so many questions!

I have never had to research the German side of things before so all new to me!

Dave.

 

[GreyC]

Here the 40th (Saxon) division: 1916 on the Somme could be a match, no time to check, i am afraid.

1916

• bis 23. Juni – Stellungskämpfe in Flandern und Artois
• 24. Juni bis 7. Juli – Erkundungs- und Demonstrationsgefechte der 6. Armee im Zusammenhang mit der Schlacht an der Somme
• 7. Juli bis 4. August – Stellungskämpfe in Flandern und Artois
• 5. August bis 3. September – Schlacht an der Somme
• 4. bis 30. September – Stellungskämpfe in Flandern und Artois
• 5. Oktober bis 8. November – Schlacht an der Somme
• ab 8. November – Stellungskämpfe an der Yser im Wytschaete-Bogen

1917

• bis 26. Mai – Stellungskämpfe an der Yser im Wytschaete-Bogen
• 26. Februar bis 2. Juni – Stellungskämpfe vor Verdun
• 27. Mai bis 14. August – Schlacht in Flandern (Messines)
• 14. August bis 14. Oktober – Kämpfe in der Siegfriedstellung
• 14. bis 28. Oktober – Herbstschlacht in Flandern
• 29. Oktober bis 6. November – Transport nach dem Osten
• 7. November bis 5. Dezember – Stellungskämpfe zwischen Njemen-Beresina-Krewo-Smorgon-Narotsch-Tweretsch
• 6. bis 17. Dezember – Waffenruhe
• ab 17. Dezember – Waffenstillstand

1918

• bis 15. Februar – Waffenstillstand
• 15. bis 25. Februar – Transport nach dem Westen
• 26. Februar bis 2. Juni – Stellungskämpfe zwischen Maas und Mosel
• 3. bis 13. Juni – Schlacht bei Soissons und Reims
• 14. Juni bis 4. Juli – Stellungskämpfe zwischen Oise, Aisne und Marne
• 5. bis 17. Juli – Stellungskämpfe zwischen Aisne und Marne
• 18. bis 25. Juli – Abwehrschlacht zwischen Soissons und Reims
• 26. Juli bis 20. August – Kämpfe zwischen Arras und Albert
• 21. August bis 2. September – Schlacht bei Monchy-Bapaume
• 3. bis 8. September – Reserve der OHL
• 9. bis 27. September – Stellungskrieg in Flandern
• 28. September bis 17. Oktober – Abwehrschlacht in Flandern
• 18. bis 24. Oktober – Nachhutkämpfe zwischen Yser und Lys
• 25. Oktober bis 1. November – Schlacht an der Lys
• 2. bis 4. November – Nachhutkämpfe beiderseits der Schelde
• 5. bis 11. November – Rückzugskämpfe vor der Antwerpen-Maas-Stellung
• 12. November bis 19. Dezember – Räumung des besetzten Gebietes und Marsch in die Heimat

Edited 26 April by GreyC

[Dave66]

Greys….many thanks.