Help to identify unknown insignia please.

[Dave66]

Afternoon all,

I’ve been trawling round the flea, and found an old players cigarette tin with what I thought was ww1 era newspaper cuttings…very reasonably priced, I didn’t go through it there, as for a fiver it would be a bit of fun when home. Well, turned out to be a lovely little time casual, a German shoulder board, coins and other oddities, a British stretcher bearers armband issued to a casualty clearing station and the small printed patch pictured below.

Any help to identify would be appreciated.

Dave.

[Michelle Young]

It looks similar to the cap badge of the Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment. 

[Dave66]

Thanks Michelle.

[FROGSMILE]

59 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

Afternoon all,

I’ve been trawling round the flea, and found an old players cigarette tin with what I thought was ww1 era newspaper cuttings…very reasonably priced, I didn’t go through it there, as for a fiver it would be a bit of fun when home. Well, turned out to be a lovely little time casual, a German shoulder board, coins and other oddities, a British stretcher bearers armband issued to a casualty clearing station and the small printed patch pictured below.

Any help to identify would be appreciated.

Dave.

I’m fairly sure it’s not British Dave.  I suggest you focus your inquiries more towards a European continental nation.  There are similarities with a so-called ‘British lion’, but in heraldry just about every European nation used similar at various times.  The other symbol is completely unfamiliar to me, but also the general design of the badge and its construction does not look British to my eyes.  I’ll happily be proved wrong, as there’s always something new to learn, but that’s my considered take on it upon this first examination.

Edited 1 April by FROGSMILE

[Dave66]

That’s interesting, thanks, Google isn’t much help at the moment but I’ll have another trawl after walking the mutt.

Dave.

[Dave66]

Just to put it into context, the other contents are pictured below.

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Dave66 said:

Just to put it into context, the other contents are pictured below.

 

I wonder if it has any connection with the German shoulder strap with regimental number.  I know that Bavaria used a Lion as an emblem, but I think it was rearing on its back legs with claws outstretched, described in heraldry as rampant.

Belgium used a Lion (of Nassau) too, as does the Netherlands now.

The bullet has a rim and so is German 7.92mm Mauser.  If the cap at bottom of case hasn’t been struck (dimpled) then it’s technically still ‘live’, but you probably already know that so forgive egg sucking Dave if it applies.

Edited 1 April by FROGSMILE

[Dave66]

Thankyou frogsmile, it’s a nice salty mixed lot but as I always shy away from anything German it’s an absolute mystery. It has the feel of a formation patch, but printed on thin material, and there is certainly a resemblance to Michelle’s suggestion of the lancasters…perhaps @poona guard may have some suggestions.

Appreciate your help,

Dave.

[poona guard]

It is not a Great War British badge, However it looks like a Southern Rhodesia lion.

[Dave66]

4 minutes ago, poona guard said:

It is not a Great War British badge, However it looks like a Southern Rhodesia lion.

Thank you,

Dave.

[GWF1967]

3 hours ago, Dave66 said:

Just to put it into context, the other contents are pictured below.

 

Nice find Dave.  

[Dave66]

13 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Nice find Dave.  

Thank you, certainly an unexpected bonus but this will give lots of research opportunities for these wet days….the shoulder board and armband will be staying in the freezer for the next few weeks as there is moth damage.

 

[museumtom]

Correct me if I am wrong Frogsmile but is the round not French? I thought the 7.92 was not rimmed.

Edited 1 April by museumtom

[Dave66]

Yes, it’s French, dated 1 15.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, museumtom said:

Correct me if I am wrong Frogsmile but is the round not French? I thought the 7.92 was not rimmed.

Yes I’m sorry you’re absolutely right, I reversed things in my mind.  British and French ammunition was rimmed and German was rimless.  The difference was of strong significance to me because when the British Army adopted 7.62mm NATO it for the first time used a rimless rifle cartridge.  Apologies for the confusion that was down to my brain fog today, distracted by other things.

Edited 1 April by FROGSMILE

[Interested]

I wonder if the insignia could have been cut from the side of an aircraft.

As an aside, there is a story that the Ferrari Lion Rampant symbol was based on an insignia that hung on the wall of a garage of a friend of Enzo, that had been cut from the fuselage of a downed aircraft.

I suppose it depends on how large the emblem is.

[Dave66]

It’s not that big to be honest, two and a half inches by three and a half. Just had another look and it, although very grubby, it may be printed on silk. It must have some sort of connection, the coins and bullet are French, German shoulder board and pickelhelb cockade. One newspaper cutting refers to captured German pow’s, another a missing captain in the medical corps…it may well remain a mystery.

[GreyC]

Hi,

the shoulder strap with regimental number seems to have belonged to a soldier who was a member of the Saxon IR 181, a regiment active exclusively on the Western front at Lille, the Somme and Flanders.

GreyC

[Dave66]

Thank you for that, extremely useful. Can you steer me on the other German items, especially the remains of the grey tin.

Dave.

[GreyC]

Hi,

can´t really say much more other than below the postal order is a Prussian cockade, by the looks of it (size) it could be an officer´s one. And the clipping refering to the POW mentions the northern part of the Western front, which could mean Flanders? The strap was probably collected before the middle of 1915, as of 20.01.1915 the blouse 1915 was introduced with diffrent looking straps. However, it took a while until all got their new uniforms. The rusty tinbadge seems to be German memorabilia as it says "Weltkrieg 1914-1915". So the strap and the memorabilia can be dated relatively early in the war.

Best,

GreyC

Edited 1 April by GreyC

[Dave66]

That’s enormously helpful, thank you.

such a shame when these stories are lost in time, with luck, it can be slowly pieced together.
 

Dave.

 

[GreyC]

Glad I could help a little.

GreyC

[Interested]

Also, the shield outline with those two cut-outs in the top corners is (according to my book on Heraldry) likely to be German or Polish.  The stylised "L" I couldn't find any reference to.

[GreyC]

3 hours ago, Interested said:

likely to be German or Polish

....or Danish, Austrian, also used in Kärnten (Switzerland) as Staufer-Löwe and as variant in the English coat of arms as leopard (face towards the spectator).

Edited 2 April by GreyC

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, GreyC said:

English coat of arms as leopard (face towards the spectator).

Yes you’re right, that is the badge mentioned by Michelle early in the thread and worn by the King’s Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment).  Like you and others I think that the badge relates to a continental Europe origin in this particular case though.

Edited 2 April by FROGSMILE