Harry Ainscough, Private in Army Service Corps WW1 - help please

[Alpineted]

     

My enquiry concerns my husband's (John) grandfather and his service during WW1 - John recalls that his grandfather served in German East Africa. His details are as follows:

 

Harry Ainscough, born in Southport in 1889.

Royal Army Service Corps

Service number: M2/188890 Rank: Private

31 Devonshire Road, Southport, Lancashire

 

I am really hoping that somewhere within the record details above there may be an indicator to which Company of the ASC Harry enlisted - as I believe I need to know that in order to access the War Diaries for his time in German East Africa.

 

I am a member of Find My Past, Myheritage and Ancestry plus National Archives and Western Front (with fold3 access) - unfortunately my lack of knowledge re WW1 and/or my lack of ‘searching skills’ (particularly with Fold3 records) means that I either can’t find the records that I am looking for (and that should be there), or that I can’t fully understand what I do find - so I am hoping someone will be able to help me and/or point me in another direction.

 

First of all, to the information I have found:

 

1 Nominal Index of All Personnel Serving in a Theatre of War 1914-1919… no questions.

 

2 Roll of individuals entitled to the Victory Medal and British War Medal… the first column of this roll shows Harry’s regiment as M2/188890 - I would like to know what the M2 in his regiment number indicates please.

 

3. Forces War records form S.B.36 - part of Pensions Ledgers and Index Cards..

- Regional No. on form is shown as 3/MS No. 1337. What does this mean?

Does it give any indication about which Company of the Army Service Corps Harry served in?

What does ‘due to 20%’ mean in practice and how long would it apply?

 

4. Medal Roll index card. In the Roll column of this card J. 2829 it shows ‘RASC/101’ and then either B153, B133, or could even be B103. Can anyone shed any light into theses references please

 

5. WW1 Pension Ledgers and index cards.. This is probably the most confusing of the records to me. First of all, I know the record is correct, because it shows the correct address and personnel number. In the bottom left of the card is a stamp with some handwritten information on it, I can see that Harry was awarded 8 shillings, between 17/10/19 and 27/4/20 but I cannot tell if that is payable weekly or monthly. Within the stamped area is written 2/ASC (or may be Z/ASC) 5788, any ideas?

 

- also above and outside the stamped box is handwritten 16.10.19 and the reference S?B 91648 (the ? t legible to me), the ‘reference mark’ has a strike through it.

 

Finally, this card has a black triangle on the top right hand side and above AINSCOUGH in red writing it says Dead RCE 23-1-??.

‘Our’ Harry Ainscough of 31 Devonshire Road Southport (in 1919) died in 1968.

 

Thank you, all information and advice will be gratefully received.

 

Lin

 

PS I can upload the other files mentioned above if required - I have just tried one for now, to see if it works (fingers crossed)

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum . Firstly, I suggest that you have a read ( as is recommended) of the How to research a soldier on the LonLong Trail website.

M2 means mechanical transport . Dead means the claim is dead, not the  individual. 

[Alpineted]

Thank you Michelle, 

I note your comments. 
 

I did read sections of the Long Long trail website and have found it very helpful. The site has also been very informative in researching my family during WW1.  I intend to view the Absent Voters list 1918, which is also a recommendation of the Long Long trail website. 
 

The M for motor transport is mentioned there, but I could not see reference to the  number 2 (as in M2).  It is most important to me to identify which Company Harry was in, so that the appropriate War Diaries can be viewed. 

 

yes, mia culpa re the ‘dead’ meaning claim as well as on occasion the person - I remember seeing the black triangle on the card of my uncle George’s card, who was killed in France in 1915 and must have associated that with this entry. Apologies. 

 

 

 

[Michelle Young]

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/letter-prefixes-to-british-soldiers-numbers-in-the-first-world-war/

Apologies-Mechanical Transport, not motor. Scroll through the link and you will find it. 

[RussT]

There is a fragment of a record in FMP that states he had come from No 7 Coy for Lorry Driving Instruction - with others from other ASC Companies.

I believe No 7 Coy ASC was a Horse Transport Company in a Divisional Train - in France.

No date or other information on it unfortunately - these are just scraps of paper that sometime turn up in other men's Service Files.

You could search for Service Records for all the other men on this list to explore whether any information contained in them might offer clues.

Regards

Russ

 

[RussT]

2 hours ago, Alpineted said:

the first column of this roll shows Harry’s regiment as M2/188890

He wasn't in a Regiment - he was in a specifically-named Corps - the Army Service Corps. They gained the honorific "Royal" shortly after the war.

His Service number, which was unique to the ASC, was M2/188890 - you have been advised to read up on the ASC number prefixes - there were a few of them.

2 hours ago, Alpineted said:

Regional No. on form is shown as 3/MS No. 1337. What does this mean

Pension claims were administered by various Regional Offices designated by these codes - it reads 3/MA/1337 not 3/MS No 1337. You can read all about these codes on the relevant pages of the WFA.

2 hours ago, Alpineted said:

Medal Roll index card. In the Roll column of this card J. 2829 it shows ‘RASC/101’ and then either B153, B133, or could even be B103. Can anyone shed any light into theses references please

These are simply the Medal Roll Reference and Page number for the Roll which you have attached to your post. This reference simply enables the Card to be linked to the Roll.

2 hours ago, Alpineted said:

Within the stamped area is written 2/ASC (or may be Z/ASC) 5788, any ideas?

- also above and outside the stamped box is handwritten 16.10.19 and the reference S?B 91648 (the ? t legible to me), the ‘reference mark’ has a strike through it.

It reads Z/ASC which refers that he was discharged on 16/10/1919 to the Class Z Army Reserve (see LLT) and his Pension Claim was administered through the so-called Z-scheme. There is some discussion about this on the Forum if you do a search.

S?B 91648 is another Pension Claim reference lost on me but others might know.

His payments etc can be better explained by others.

Regards

Russ

 

[Alpineted]

52 minutes ago, RussT said:

There is a fragment of a record in FMP that states he had come from No 7 Coy for Lorry Driving Instruction - with others from other ASC Companies.

I believe No 7 Coy ASC was a Horse Transport Company in a Divisional Train - in France.

No date or other information on it unfortunately - these are just scraps of paper that sometime turn up in other men's Service Files.

You could search for Service Records for all the other men on this list to explore whether any information contained in them might off clues.

Regards

Russ

 

Thank you very much for this Russ, how on earth did you find it? - talk about finding a needle in a haystack! Very interesting that Harry was in France 'at some stage'. May I ask what /where you searched in FMP,  just  so I can learn and apply new search techniques myself. Presumably he moved to German East Africa (hope I have the term right) at a later date, as he was discharged in 1919 with Malaria - do you think the Company itself may have moved there or could Harry have been transferred to another Company I wonder. 

Good idea to search other men on the list  - I will try that tomorrow.

Thank you once again for your help, much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Lin

 

[Alpineted]

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/letter-prefixes-to-british-soldiers-numbers-in-the-first-world-war/

Apologies-Mechanical Transport, not motor. Scroll through the link and you will find it. 

Thanks Michelle, just had a quick scan, looks informative - will study it tomorrow. 

Thanks again, I appreciate your help.

[Alpineted]

51 minutes ago, RussT said:

He wasn't in a Regiment - he was in a specifically-named Corps - the Army Service Corps. They gained the honorific "Royal" shortly after the war.

His Service number, which was unique to the ASC, was M2/188890 - you have been advised to read up on the ASC number prefixes - there were a few of them.

Pension claims were administered by various Regional Offices designated by these codes - it reads 3/MA/1337 not 3/MS No 1337. You can read all about these codes on the relevant pages of the WFA.

These are simply the Medal Roll Reference and Page number for the Roll which you have attached to your post. This reference simply enables the Card to be linked to the Roll.

It reads Z/ASC which refers that he was discharged on 16/10/1919 to the Class Z Army Reserve (see LLT) and his Pension Claim was administered through the so-called Z-scheme. There is some discussion about this on the Forum if you do a search.

S?B 91648 is another Pension Claim reference lost on me but others might know.

His payments etc can be better explained by others.

Regards

Russ

 

Thank you for all of this clarification Russ and building up my knowledge 're WW1 and  for pointing me in the right direction to obtain further information.

 

Regards

 

Lin

[RussT]

6 minutes ago, Alpineted said:

May I ask what /where you searched in FMP,  just  so I can learn and apply new search techniques myself.

In FMP in their British Army Service Records. Normally it is advisable to search with the least amount of detail as possible conducive to not getting too many results - and make plenty of use of the wild-card "*".

Here is the link to the search/result page - he is first on the result list.

Search Results for British Army Service Records | findmypast.co.uk

Russ

[RussT]

13 minutes ago, Alpineted said:

Presumably he moved to German East Africa (hope I have the term right) at a later date, as he was discharged in 1919 with Malaria - do you think the Company itself may have moved there or could Harry have been transferred to another Company I wonder. 

If he indeed served in East Africa then he would have moved to an ASC Company (or some such sub-unit) that was operating there. I'm unfamiliar with the Army set up and organisation generally never mind with the ASC specifically in Africa. I'm not sure where you can start with that - perhaps others might pop along to help.

Just to note the Malaria was rife in the Salonika theatre of war - but if you are convinced he served in East Africa, then fine.

Russ

[RussT]

I see that 599 MT Company ASC & other ASC Coys were in East Africa - might be a red herring - but it's a start perhaps

Army Service Corps Mechanical Transport Companies - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

Russ

[Alpineted]

1 minute ago, RussT said:

If he indeed served in East Africa then he would have moved to an ASC Company (or some such sub-unit) that was operating there. I'm unfamiliar with the Army set up and organisation generally never mind with the ASC specifically in Africa. I'm not sure where you can start with that - perhaps others might pop along to help.

Just to note the Malaria was rife in the Salonika theatre of war - but if you are convinced he served in East Africa, then fine.

Russ

That is interesting, thanks Russ, no, I am not convinced about East Africa - as this was a memory of a relative - I will ask some other relatives if they have any different recollections. Maybe when I check the other men's records as discussed earlier, I may find out more. 

I was unaware of the Salonika theatre of war. 

 

Thanks again.

Regards

 

Lin

[Gardenerbill]

As has been previously stated M2 means Mechanical Transport. This prefix was introduced around November 1914 and is loosely linked to Kitchener's second volunteer army, however the Mechanical Transport section did not go on to adopt M3 and M4 reverting to M when conscription came in in 1916. M2/188890 I believe was allocated in December 1915, someone with access to FMP or Ancestry can confirm this with a near numbers check, so it's quite likely Henry volunteered under the Derby scheme, details of which can be found on the LLT.

S?B 91648 could be SWB for Silver War Badge these are listed on Ancestry I think.

[kenf48]

M2/188895 Holland attested under the Derby or Group Scheme in December 1915.  He would not be given a number at this stage.

He was mobilised to Grove Park on the 19th June 1916 and embarked Devonport on the 14th July 1916 , eventually arriving at Durban which was the entry port for the East Africa Campaign, he moved up to Nairobi where he was admitted to hospital in September 1916.  He also suffered from malaria.  His first posting is listed as East African Expeditionary Force (Spares).  In effect Army troops used as a relief driver etc until acclimatised.

He was taken on the strength of 648 M.T. Company on the 12th June 1917.

There is no guarantee of course that Pte Ainscough followed the same route but the corroborating family story is persuasive.

M2/188892 attested January 1916 (extended Derby Scheme) to Grove Park 19th June 1916

M2/188837 also attested under the Derby Scheme and was mobilised to Grove Park on the 19th June 1916. He was posted to France on the 25th July 1916.

I think we can say Pte Ainscough was mobilised to Grove Park on or around 19th/20th June 1916.

I do not believe the fragment Russ found relates to 7 Coy ASC in France but more likely a fragment of Part II Daily Orders at Grove Park or other ASC Depot.

Most of these were destroyed in the Arnside Warehouse fire in 1940 but unlike Ancestry FMP has indexed these fragments.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

It's not a given, but my experience of men with M2 prefixes, is that a lot of them were professional drivers  -chauffeurs and so on, before the war.

[Gardenerbill]

Dai I think you might be thinking of the DM2.

If the East Africa connection is correct then you might like to get a copy of 'East Africa by Motor Lorry: Recollections of an ex-motor transport driver' copies available on Amazon but please use the link above.

[kenf48]

14 hours ago, Alpineted said:

It is most important to me to identify which Company Harry was in, so that the appropriate War Diaries can be viewed. 

The East Africa E.F. war diaries can be downloaded from the National Archives (free if you register)

Here is an example,

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C4558491

you will note they are incomplete, short etc. I can't find a diary for 648 M.T. Company which at best would give a flavour of their duties whether or not he served with them

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said:

Dai I think you might be thinking of the DM2.

No GB, DM2s were 'Learners' in MT.
Not novices to driving, they may well have held private driving licences before the war, but they weren't professionals at attestation.

A higher number of M2s were already professional drivers by that time.

[Gardenerbill]

Agreed but all Mechanical Transport recruits, drivers or technicians, were given M2 prefixes between 1914 and 1916.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

6 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Agreed but all Mechanical Transport recruits, drivers or technicians, were given M2 prefixes between 1914 and 1916.

Apart from the learners who were DM2s

[Gardenerbill]

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Apart from the learners who were DM2s

Ah yes, ASC prefixes are tricky.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Just now, Gardenerbill said:

Ah yes, ASC prefixes are tricky.

Yes, aren't they just?
I think we've confused the OP more than enough...

[Chris_Baker]

15 hours ago, RussT said:

There is a fragment of a record in FMP that states he had come from No 7 Coy for Lorry Driving Instruction - with others from other ASC Companies.

I believe No 7 Coy ASC was a Horse Transport Company in a Divisional Train - in France.

--- snip ---

 

I do not think that is correct in Harry Ainscough's case. These were training companies at No 1 MT Reserve Depot at Grove Park.

[Chris_Baker]

I note that M2/188895 F. W. A. Holland sailed from Devonport on 14 July 1916, landing at Kilindini in East Africa on 20 August 1916. Good chance that Harry was with him. He was not with a company at that time, but was one of a draft of men. Holland was often ill, mainly malaria, and later (August 1917) served with 648 MT Company but it is not clear from his record whether he was with a company before this.