Price566673738 Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March Hey everyone. Hey everyone. I have loved learning from your posts. This is my Great grand uncle Charles Hiscock. He served in ww1 in the South lancashire regiment. He was gassed and that gave him aggravated asthma for the rest of his life. What I would like to know more about is his uniform e.g what do the chest and arm stripes mean (I think he was a corporal). (And what is that by the breast pocket)Unfortunately I can't colourise / enhance the photo. This was taken at his brothers wedding (he also served during ww1) Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March Welcome to the forum. Yes he is a corporal. It looks like a fob watch by his pocket. He’s wearing medal ribbons, which are the chest stripes. (By the way, I’m glad you haven’t tried to colourise the photo, it adds nothing in my opinion!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March Could this be him? Image ©️ Ancestry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Yes it is thanks Michelle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March There’s a pension card, I can’t access it, but the address could be Beaumont St. Is that ringing any bells? We would need someone like @Matlock1418to interpret it. Looks like he was discharged 17/11/19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Hi Michelle. Yes I already have the pension card. A while ago I spoke to a vert nice lady at the western front association and she deciphered the record for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March He entered a theatre of war after 31/12/1915 and was entitled to the War and Victory Medals, the ribbons in the photograph. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March This is the pension record. I'll see if i can find the back of it 1 minute ago, Price566673738 said: This is the pension record. I'll see if i can find the back of it I found it - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March Pte Hiscock was mobilised and posted into the Welsh Regiment on or around 1st August 1916. In all probability a conscript, although he may have attested under the Derby or Groups scheme and obtained a temporary exemption. We don't know his age or occupation. He was allocated the the number 48228 and posted to the 12th (Reserve) Battalion at Kinmel Park. He was posted to the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment and the BEF on a date to be determined. It is doubtful that he served in the field with that battalion as A draft to the BEF which embarked on the 30th March 1918 and destined for the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment was posted on the 31st March at the Infantry Base Depot to the 2nd Battalion South Lancashire Regiment. His number falls within those allocated to those posted from that draft. He was subsequently posted to the 11th Battalion South Lancashire Regiment (in all probability following their reorganisation) This Battalion were Pioneers. You could look in the casualty records for his wounding (gassed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Hi ken, he would have been 20 in 1916 as he was born in 1896. He probably would have been an miner as his whole family was and in the 1911 census his occupation was given as a miner. Just a quick question what do you mean by the casualty records and what are the cookhouse details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 24 March Admin Share Posted 24 March 39 minutes ago, Price566673738 said: Hi ken, he would have been 20 in 1916 as he was born in 1896. He probably would have been a miner as his whole family was and in the 1911 census his occupation was given as a miner. Just a quick question what do you mean by the casualty records and what are the cookhouse details. The War Office Weekly Casualty lists for this period are available at the National Library of Scotland and are searchable https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/144481815 “Cookhouse details “Forgive me for confusing you I meant I was preparing Sunday Lunch so there will be a pause from me for a while so much for my attempt at humour back later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Hi ken, just a quick question. Do we know when Charles was wounded?. I don't think his service record survived. I do know his brother will also joined up and was wounded by shrapnel in his knee ? I think. Unfortunately I can't find anything on William Hiscock serving in ww1. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March 6 hours ago, Michelle Young said: There’s a pension card, I can’t access it, but the address could be Beaumont St. Is that ringing any bells? We would need someone like @Matlock1418to interpret it. Looks like he was discharged 17/11/19. No problem Michelle - but a small semantic .... That record you refer to is a pension ledger page [actually physically approx. 3 x the size of a pension index card, not that the scanned image looks like it] This is his related PIC [same claim reference from the MoP Welsh Region, 5] - I would expect it, and read it, as being a bit earlier than the PLP Image thanks to WFA/Fold3 From the two records I might suggest he didn't make a claim under the 1919 Royal Warrant at initial point of discharge [which would have been an Article 1 claim] but a bit later, possibly around 28 Aug 1922 [and thus an Article 9 claim for a disability from disease post-discharge under the same RW]. Gassing was the only disability accepted/pension awarded and from the DEAD 13.1.30 on the PIC it looks like his claim had ended by then - how I cannot determine. Sadly his main pension award file has not survived - likely deliberatly destroyed once its use was passed [as were the majority]. What had happened to the man I cannot determine from these records. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March (edited) 1 hour ago, Price566673738 said: I do know his brother will also joined up and was wounded by shrapnel in his knee ? I think. Unfortunately I can't find anything on William Hiscock serving in ww1. I might politely and in a friendly manner suggest you please open a separate thread for William - That way things don't potentially get confusing in a single thread. [Please provide provide as much biographical detail as you can so we can try and separate from many other William HISCOCKs - We can always later make a link between multiple threads to make the familial relationship clear]. M Edited 24 March by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Hi Yes I agree and I have made another thread for William Cheers for everything so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March (edited) 18 hours ago, Price566673738 said: I have made another thread for William For cross-referencing purposes the thread for William HISCOCK https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/310016-william-hiscock-ww1 M Edited 25 March by Matlock1418 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March (edited) For completeness. His casualty list report from HMSO. It is dated from the 22 May 1918 list, published 28th May 1918. The actual date of the wounding was likely 4 weeks prior to 22 May 1918 (image courtesy of NLS): Edited 24 March by AndrewSid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 25 March Admin Share Posted 25 March 20 hours ago, Price566673738 said: Hi ken, just a quick question. Do we know when Charles was wounded?. @AndrewSid Has done the search for you The war diary of the 2nd South Lancashire (free if you register https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353386) shows a reinforcement draft of 73 other ranks arrived on the 1st April 1918. The Battalion was part of 75th Brigade 25th Division the LLT puts the fighting during April in context https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/25th-division/ The diary tells us that between the 10th and 18th April the battalion suffered with 49 men dead, 206 missing and 375 wounded. I suspect Pte Hiscock and his comrades in the above list date from that period though as has been noted we can't be exact. You could search the men in the above list to try and pin down the date. The losses were so great that as noted on the LLT it became necessary to create a composite Brigade. I suggest that on his recovery in the UK was when he was posted from a Reserve Battalion to the reconstituted 11th Battalion South Lancashire Regiment. I see from the other thread Pte Charles Hiscock was gassed whilst serving with the 2nd Welsh Regiment so to correct my earlier post he did serve in the field with them and was repatriated to the UK towards the end of 1917 and then posted to the 2nd South Lancashire in the reinforcement draft above. I note also the clipping states he was called up in November 1916. I still stick by the August date for mobilisation on the basis of near number sampling - twelve weeks training - so in all probability drafted to the BEF and 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment in November 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 25 March Author Share Posted 25 March Do we have any information about the 2nd welsh regiment. I can't find anything online. Where did they fight? Any battles that Charles could have been in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 25 March Admin Share Posted 25 March The war diaries for the Western Front are accessible free via the National Archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 25 March Admin Share Posted 25 March https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052744 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052745 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052746 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052747 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052748 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052749 This is the diaries for the entire war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 25 March Share Posted 25 March And here is his Welsh Regiment wounding report. No other names to help us out I’m afraid. Again a rough marker of the wounded event being 4 weeks before, so mid Jan 1918. Looks like he wasn’t home long before a return to France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 25 March Share Posted 25 March 1 hour ago, AndrewSid said: And here is his Welsh Regiment wounding report. No other names to help us out I’m afraid. Again a rough marker of the wounded event being 4 weeks before, so mid Jan 1918. Looks like he wasn’t home long before a return to France. It offers another address search opportunity - Brynteg M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Price566673738 Posted 25 March Author Share Posted 25 March 46 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: It offers another address search opportunity - Brynteg M 'm looking at the other records for him. His service number was 32787 while this other C Hiscock is 48228. Correct me if I'm wrong but surely a man wouldn't change service number ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 25 March Share Posted 25 March (edited) 5 minutes ago, Price566673738 said: surely a man wouldn't change service number ? Very wrong. Men changed service numbers with the wind! It is not uncommon to see men with 7 or 8 service numbers . His change entirely normal as he moved between Regiments. Whilst confusing it can be useful over 100 years later as they are usually dateable and can untangle a mans movements and timings a little. EDIT: I of course mean Regimental Numbers! Andy Edited 25 March by AndrewSid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now