2Lt Thomas James Morris 7bn Royal Inniskilling Fu 18716

[Tony Ferguson]

I have found this man's medal card and it looks like he did not enter the war (France) until 1 Oct 1918. Shows him awarded the British and Victory medals. However, there is a suggestion he may have entered the war earlier with a different regiment and won the Military Medal or Cross (not sure which if any- he would have been promoted as a Temporary Gentleman). Any assistance appreciated

Thanks

[Tawhiri]

According to the December 1918 Army List, 2nd Lieutenant Thomas James Morris was commissioned on 31 July 1918, and he also has the letters MM after his name, so he was awarded the Military Medal earlier in his career. The record of his commissioning appears in the Gazette of 8 August 1918 again with the letters MM after his name.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103437812

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30834/supplement/9351

It would be unusual if there were two separate medal index cards for the same man, especially for one who had been commissioned from the ranks, since there should be a notation that he was discharged to be commissioned. There should also be a notation that he was awarded the Military Medal. I suspect you'll now have to trawl through a list of Military Medal winners to see if you can identify his earlier regiment and service number.

The other point is that as an officer he won't have had a service number, so I'm not sure where the 18716 in your header comes from.

Edited 19 March by Tawhiri

[Ivor Anderson]

Sgt, Thomas Morris MM, 18716 Royal Inniskilling Fus - MM in LG 4 Feb 1918 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30507/supplement/1614

MM index card: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6199196  shows MM was awarded with 7/8th R Innis Fus

An award for the Battle of Passchendaele in October 1917.         He was from Moneymore, Co. Londonderry.

Edited 20 March by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

His initial issue was returned (MIC & roll - Ancestry):

Edited 19 March by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

17 hours ago, Tawhiri said:

2nd Lieutenant Thomas James Morris was commissioned on 31 July 1918, and he also has the letters MM after his name, so he was awarded the Military Medal earlier in his career. The record of his commissioning appears in the Gazette of 8 August 1918 again with the letters MM after his name.

Yes. Any MMs awarded after 31 July 1918 cannot be him - inc a Thomas James Morris 241887 of 6th Liverpool Regt. (LG 13 March 1919).

Edited 20 March by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

NB the Officer was from Moneymore - same as the MM gazette listing (MIC Ancestry): https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30507/supplement/1614

 

Edited 20 March by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Dirty Harry]

Post war he joined the IRA you should be able to get that record from the Irish national archives from what I remember 

 

he’s the only inniskilling officer I’ve come across who did join

Edited 20 March by Dirty Harry

[Tony Ferguson]

On 19/03/2024 at 13:07, Tawhiri said:

According to the December 1918 Army List, 2nd Lieutenant Thomas James Morris was commissioned on 31 July 1918, and he also has the letters MM after his name, so he was awarded the Military Medal earlier in his career. The record of his commissioning appears in the Gazette of 8 August 1918 again with the letters MM after his name.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103437812

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30834/supplement/9351

It would be unusual if there were two separate medal index cards for the same man, especially for one who had been commissioned from the ranks, since there should be a notation that he was discharged to be commissioned. There should also be a notation that he was awarded the Military Medal. I suspect you'll now have to trawl through a list of Military Medal winners to see if you can identify his earlier regiment and service number.

The other point is that as an officer he won't have had a service number, so I'm not sure where the 18716 in your header comes from.

Thanks for the input. He was gazzetted twice- on 4/2/18 and 8/8/18. Could the second one relate to a temporary posting to Major?

[Tony Ferguson]

On 20/03/2024 at 07:05, Ivor Anderson said:

NB the Officer was from Moneymore - same as the MM gazette listing (MIC Ancestry): https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30507/supplement/1614

 

Thank you very much for the input Ivor- much appreciated. As he was awarded the MM there will have been no citation recorded so no idea what he did to earn it?

[Tony Ferguson]

On 20/03/2024 at 21:55, Dirty Harry said:

Post war he joined the IRA you should be able to get that record from the Irish national archives from what I remember 

 

he’s the only inniskilling officer I’ve come across who did join

Yes he joined the IRA and eventually led the 2nd Northern Division. He probably was the only officer from the Iniskillings to do so. Overall, only c60 (sixty) men out of 6m who served in WW1, transitioned into the IRA. Andy Symington (24168 R Ir Fu) was another.

[Ivor Anderson]

3 minutes ago, Tony Ferguson said:

As he was awarded the MM there will have been no citation recorded so no idea what he did to earn it?

       Start by checking the 7/8th Bn war diary from October 1917. See what actions they were in then. Definitely a 3rd Ypres/Passchendaele award.

[Tony Ferguson]

Thanks Ivor- will do.

[corisande]

On 20/03/2024 at 08:05, Ivor Anderson said:

the Officer was from Moneymore

It means that he enlisted in Moneymore

[Tony Ferguson]

49 minutes ago, corisande said:

It means that he enlisted in Moneymore

he was from Moneymore as well

[corisande]

[corisande]

[Tony Ferguson]

Thank you!

[Ivor Anderson]

The 7/8th R Innis Fus war diary mentions a trench raid on the evening of 29 Oct 1917 by 4 officers & 100 ORs: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352884

Detailed report in the WD at end of Oct 1917. 1 officer & 9 ORs wounded, none killed or missing.  Fits the newspaper 'barbed wire & wounded' report.

War diary end of Nov 1917:

Edited 25 March by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[corisande]

You presumably have 1911 census at Smith St, Moneymore

and birth

 

[corisande]

There is a lot on his brother John in Irish Military Archives, also of Moneymore IRA

http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/detail.aspx

File relates to an unsuccessful claim by John Morris under the Military Service Pensions Act, 1924. John Morris claimed service from 1918 to 1922 with the Irish Volunteers and IRA. According to references on file John Morris took part in a number of IRA operations and attacks against the British and Northern Ireland government forces. Captured in June 1922 he was interned on the prison ship S. S. Argenta until November 1923. File also relates to the unsuccessful attempts by his brother Thomas James Morris to claim in respect of the death of John Morris under the Army Pensions Acts.

Edited 25 March by corisande

[Ivor Anderson]

War diary listed MCs for trench raid - prob for 29 Oct 1917: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30651/supplement/4994

Edited 25 March by Ivor Anderson

[corisande]

And again I assume you have Thomas John's Military service file

Thomas James Morris claims to have joined the Irish Volunteers in February 1919 having previously served with the British Army during the First World War - he claims to have left the British Army at the rank of Lieutenant. He claims that while serving with the British Army that he had passed on a quantity of arms and ammunition to the Irish Volunteers in his native County Derry. During 1919 and 1920 he was involved in the organisation and training of Irish Volunteer and IRA units in counties Derry and Tyrone.

http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/docs/files//PDF_Pensions/R3/24SP139THOMASJAMESMORRIS/W24SP139THOMASJAMESMORRIS.pdf

[Ivor Anderson]

He was quite a character. A man moulded by the times in which he lived and the experiences that he went through.

[Tony Ferguson]

2 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

The 7/8th R Innis Fus war diary mentions a trench raid on the evening of 29 Oct 1917 by 4 officers & 100 ORs: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352884

Detailed report in the WD at end of Oct 1917. 1 officer & 9 ORs wounded, none killed or missing.  Fits the newspaper 'barbed wire & wounded' report.

War diary end of Nov 1917:

Great find Ivor- thank you!

[Tony Ferguson]

3 hours ago, corisande said:

And again I assume you have Thomas John's Military service file

Thomas James Morris claims to have joined the Irish Volunteers in February 1919 having previously served with the British Army during the First World War - he claims to have left the British Army at the rank of Lieutenant. He claims that while serving with the British Army that he had passed on a quantity of arms and ammunition to the Irish Volunteers in his native County Derry. During 1919 and 1920 he was involved in the organisation and training of Irish Volunteer and IRA units in counties Derry and Tyrone.

http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/docs/files//PDF_Pensions/R3/24SP139THOMASJAMESMORRIS/W24SP139THOMASJAMESMORRIS.pdf

Terrific find. A trove of info. Thank you