Pte Henry Weston 2/SWB DOW 3rd or 15th May 1915 old soldier ? Coy ? Harborne Birmingham

[wulsten]

Looking at a soldier who died of wounds after the landing at Gallipoli with the 2nd Batt South Wales Borderers, Henry or Harry Weston 13356 different dates of death via CWGC and Pension card, however would Henry have served in the Army at some point prior to the war as i believe he was 43 when he died, born and resided Harborne Birmingham.

Also is there any way of finding out his possible Coy as 2/SWB were i believe split between Y & S beaches.

Probably buried at Sea ?

any help appreciated

 

[Pat Atkins]

I don't know if it's your man, but there's a SWB attestation from 1889 of a Henry Weston; the ages would fit. This man was from Birminghem, and aged 18 on enlistment. He served in 2nd Bn, served in the South African war, and was discharged on termination in July 1908.

 (image courtesy of FMP)

Edited 25 February by Pat Atkins
changed 1900 to 1908 (my typo)

[Pat Atkins]

Also, there's a Red Cross enquiry card for him under 13356; the FMP transcription says he was A Company, 2 SWB.

Edited 25 February by Pat Atkins

[wulsten]

30 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

Also, there's a Red Cross enquiry card for him under 13356; the FMP transcription says he was A Company, 2 SWB.

Thank you so much for the help, something very much to go on, and from Harborne, very very much appreciated 

Edited 25 February by wulsten

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, wulsten said:

Pension card

42 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

there's a Red Cross enquiry card for him under 13356;

An interesting notation on his dependant's claim pension card [there's a pension ledger page too] - his dependant is described as his Mistress [More commonly I think might be described as an "Unmarried wife" if just in an unmarried relationship] - however was there perhaps a wife, possibly separated, still floating around?

Couldn't find the ICRC PoW card - I'm wondering who was making the enquiry ??

M

Edit: and who is named on his Register of Soldiers' Effects entry?

Edited 25 February by Matlock1418
edit

[wulsten]

6 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

An interesting notation on his dependant's claim pension card [there's a pension ledger page too] - his dependant is described as his Mistress [More commonly I think might be described as an "Unmarried wife" if just in an unmarried relationship] - however was there perhaps a wife, possibly separated, still floating around?

Couldn't find the ICRC PoW card - I'm wondering who was making the enquiry ??

M

Edit: and who is named on his Register of Soldiers' Effects entry?

It's an odd one the mistress, pension gives miss Catherine Parker, however when check freebmd death tallies with pension card deceased date, to Catherine Parker Weston 1923,

Married 1896?

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, wulsten said:

It's an odd one the mistress, pension gives miss Catherine Parker

There had to be some provable dependance before the pension was paid to her

M

[wulsten]

53 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

Also, there's a Red Cross enquiry card for him under 13356; the FMP transcription says he was A Company, 2 SWB.

Is this the Swiss red cross cards, trying to find it

[Pat Atkins]

This is what FMP have; haven't had a chance to look at the ICRC records yet (do they even cover Ottoman POWs? I've only looked for F&F men). B*****, I've just now seen his number is given as 13353, apologies!

 

[wulsten]

4 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

This is what FMP have; haven't had a chance to look at the ICRC records yet (do they even cover Ottoman POWs? I've only looked for F&F men). B*****, I've just now seen his number is given as 13353, apologies!

 

Well 13353, comes back to a soldier named Griffiths only one Henry Weston swb on mic, so this could be a transcription error fmp??? Any help finding original appreciated 

[Pat Atkins]

I've looked through the (Swiss) ICRC cards on their website and can't see any reference to any H./Harry/Henry Weston of the SWB either: I note that the website suggests (to me at least) it doesn't have much information re prisoners of the Ottoman Empire: "The Ottoman Empire exchanged prisoner lists with Russia directly and with Great Britain via the Central Prisoners of War Agency, but it did not keep copies."

FMP only has transcriptions of the British Red Cross & Order of St John Enquiry Lists, as per the image in my previous post, annoyingly. I'd say it was definitely a transcription error, either on the original document or in the transcription process; one digit wrong like that is fairly common across most record sets, at least in my experience. As everything else (name, battalion, regiment) fits it is a reasonable surmise that Weston's company is probably correct.

[wulsten]

1 minute ago, Pat Atkins said:

I've looked through the (Swiss) ICRC cards on their website and can't see any reference to any H./Harry/Henry Weston of the SWB either: I note that the website suggests (to me at least) it doesn't have much information re prisoners of the Ottoman Empire: "The Ottoman Empire exchanged prisoner lists with Russia directly and with Great Britain via the Central Prisoners of War Agency, but it did not keep copies."

FMP only has transcriptions of the British Red Cross & Order of St John Enquiry Lists, as per the image in my previous post, annoyingly. I'd say it was definitely a transcription error, either on the original document or in the transcription process; one digit wrong like that is fairly common across most record sets, at least in my experience. As everything else (name, battalion, regiment) fits it is a reasonable surmise that Weston's company is probably correct.

I would agree as numbers don't tally or make sense, your help has been very much appreciated.

Also from the look of it he was entitled to the queen's south Africa medal cape colony & orange free state & kings south Africa 1901 1902

Story hopefully coming together 

[Pat Atkins]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Edit: and who is named on his Register of Soldiers' Effects entry?

His daughter "Lilian B".

(image courtesy of Ancestry)

Edited 25 February by Pat Atkins

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

His daughter "Lilian B".

As "sole legatee" it suggests a Will was available.

M

[wulsten]

12 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

As "sole legatee" it suggests a Will was available.

M

Matlock, thanks for effect's details, it makes sense, Lilian Beatrice Weston was born 1897, parents Henry & Catherine Weston, however very strange with the pension card entries to miss Catherine Parker, who appears obvious to be Catherine Parker Weston ???

Thought only soldiers had alias ?

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, wulsten said:

Matlock, thanks for effect's details

Credit for RoSE should go to Pat for revealing what I could not earlier see

M

[Pat Atkins]

I think we know when Weston (re)enlisted. 133533 Griffiths was discharged unfit (wounds) in 1917 and has a Silver War Badge record which gives his attestation date as 31st August 1914, which suggests that's on or very near to the day Weston (re)enlisted. His entry is on a roll of South Wales Borderers Special Reserve men. 

 

[wulsten]

14 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

I think we know when Weston (re)enlisted. 133533 Griffiths was discharged unfit (wounds) in 1917 and has a Silver War Badge record which gives his attestation date as 31st August 1914, which suggests that's on or very near to the day Weston (re)enlisted. His entry is on a roll of South Wales Borderers Special Reserve men. 

 

Just to clarify is Weston on the special reserve roll

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, wulsten said:

pension gives miss Catherine Parker, however when check freebmd death tallies with pension card deceased date, to Catherine Parker Weston 1923,

Pension ledger page as PARKER, Miss/Mrs C does have the annotation A Deceased 19-4-23 - I think PA Deceased - [ie. file Put Away]

It also is annotated 12/- (Art 20) 1-10-22 to 1-10-23 [Article 20 of the 1919 RW related to Any woman who has lived as his wife with a soldier - ie. an "Unmarried Wife"]

But, all I am coming up with in 1923 is:

Surname	First name(s)	Spouse/Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Mar 1923   (>99%)
WESTON	Catherine P	66	Aston	6d	495

and

PARKER, CATHERINE	66
GRO Reference: 1923  M Quarter in ASTON  Volume 06D  Page 495  Occasional Copy: A

And this lady was 66

???

M

Edit: I think Occasional Copy A suggests a later change/correction

Edited 25 February by Matlock1418
edit

[wulsten]

3 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Pension ledger page as PARKER, Miss/Mrs C does have the annotation A Deceased 19-4-23

It also is annotated 12/- (Art 20) 1-10-22 to 1-10-23 [Article 20 of the 1919 RW related to Any woman who has lived as his wife with a soldier - ie. an "Unmarried Wife"]

But, all I am coming up with in 1923 is:

Surname	First name(s)	Spouse/Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Mar 1923   (>99%)
WESTON	Catherine P	66	Aston	6d	495

and

PARKER, CATHERINE	66
GRO Reference: 1923  M Quarter in ASTON  Volume 06D  Page 495  Occasional Copy: A

And this lady was 66

???

M

 

Yes, that is the entry I found, only other entry relates to a Leicester death which doesn't tie with age dates on marriage etc, and ties with mother of Lilian Beatrice Weston, believe Catherine maiden name was Stockton, all very confusing, also thank you for explanation of annotations 

Edited 25 February by wulsten

[Matlock1418]

11 minutes ago, wulsten said:

also thank you for explanation of annotations 

You are most welcome.  They can reveal a lot to clarify things, but also can add to the confusion when it all appears very peculiar!

Quite puzzing at the moment.

Good luck with your further research. 

M

[wulsten]

12 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

You are most welcome.  They can reveal a lot to clarify things, but also can add to the confusion when it all appears very peculiar!

Quite puzzing at the moment.

Good luck with your further research. 

M

Thank you, I will try to add to it, but thanks to all for the help, much appreciated, it also looks like he hss a nephew killed on the Somme Frank foster weston Dorsetshire regiment buried Grove Town, yet another story

Edited 25 February by wulsten

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, wulsten said:

it also looks like he hss a nephew killed on the Somme Frank foster weston Dorsetshire regiment buried Grove Town, yet another story

Pop him up in another thread and I'd be happy to look at the two pension records at WFA/Fold3 if you need - they look a lot simpler! 

M

Edited 25 February by Matlock1418
typo

[wulsten]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Pop him up in another thread and I'd be happy to look at the two pension records at WFA/Fold3 if you need - they look a lot simpler! 

 

 

Edited 25 February by wulsten

[Pat Atkins]

3 hours ago, wulsten said:

Just to clarify is Weston on the special reserve roll

This is his 1914-15 Star entry (courtesy of Ancestry):